[00:00:04] Speaker A: Welcome to the Four Wards podcast.
Hey, what's up?
[00:00:08] Speaker B: It's Eric Brah, voice of Draven, Jerks, and Velkoz.
[00:00:13] Speaker A: And you're listening to the Forwards podcast, here to help you move forward and lead.
[00:00:34] Speaker B: Hello and welcome to episode 438 of the four Wards podcast. I'm your host, as usual. I'm Jack Soman, and I've got with me just one other ward today to help you move forward in League of Legends. It's free shooter.
[00:00:48] Speaker A: You know, every time you start with your intro to the podcast, I'm tempted to just respond with hi and just throw you totally off.
[00:00:58] Speaker B: That would be pretty funny. I had a hard time. I hosted rundown last week, and I was, like, had to mentally, like, put myself in, like, hosting space, but not for wards.
It was a bit of a challenge. But, uh, you should listen to the end of the last episode of Rundown, if you haven't already. The one that came out.
[00:01:19] Speaker A: I did. It's fantastic.
[00:01:20] Speaker B: Beginning of July.
Cause that shit was very funny. So speaking of very funny, if you want to see the shenanigans that happen in my fucking ranked games, come watch me at Twitch TV, Jackson. Because what the actual fuck is going on in my games?
Emerald is a weird place, guys.
And of course, free shooter can be found at Twitch TV. Freeeshooter. That's right. There are three e's in free, and we got some shoutouts. Shoutout to Codex, Ninja, and pillow pet for supporting us at the shoutout here. Thank you so much. We appreciate you guys.
Now, if you want to get shouted out or just want to support the podcast in general, we are on Patreon. Head on over to patreon.com. the forwardspodcast $1 a month just tells us that you love us. Dollar five a month will get you an exclusive feed with behind the scenes audio. You get to hear us prepare for each episode and whatever bullshit we decide to talk about while we do that.
And $10 a month will get you the exclusive feed, but also you'll get your name shouted out at the beginning of every episode for as long as you maintain that $10 a month tier. So, yeah, patreon.com, the forwardspodcast. We appreciate you guys. Now, speaking of appreciating you guys, do you want to help guide new players in League of Legends? The Forwards podcast is hosting auditions. If you want to join the show, just record yourself giving a trinket tip. We'll have an example a little bit later and send that recording to theforwordspodcastmail.com dot we use audacity and there will be a link in the episode description to record our audio. And we typically record around 06:00 p.m. pacific and 09:00 p.m. eastern. We are currently going to be flexible on the day because it depends on what our availability of the people we pick are. So if you can make a 06:00 p.m. pacific 09:00 p.m. eastern recording time, give or take 30 minutes.
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All right, last but not least listeners, there's one other thing you can send to that email, which is questions. A couple of you did send in questions this week. Thank you. That means I don't have to chew you out. You get praised instead. So if you have a praise kink, send us questions so we can praise you instead of chewing you out.
Those questions go to the forwardspodcastmail.com ask us shit so we can answer it on the show.
Alright, our topic tonight, it's been popping up a lot. We meme about a specific example of it every single week. That's literally from seven years ago at this point.
[00:04:01] Speaker A: Listen, you say it's from seven years ago, you had one in one of your games this week.
[00:04:07] Speaker B: You're not wrong and in the appropriate circumstance, not the one we meme about, but we're gonna talk about when and why and how and all of that, of playing marksman in roles other than the bot lane carry role.
[00:04:21] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:04:22] Speaker B: So you're the marksman expert, so I'm going to let you kick it off even though I'm the one who plays a lot of Tristana mid.
[00:04:28] Speaker A: Sure. So yeah, this has been cropping up a lot in pro play and even been leaking out, especially since the big ADC item rework, which I mean, I, in some of the my friend circles of in it, a lot of people are just saying ad carries are overpowered and should be nerfed into the ground. I don't actually think that's the reason, and I don't even say that as an ADC player because there's a lot of reasons why it can work and a lot of, but it's only like specific champions that it really can work with.
And I should say off the top, we're not going to talk about jungle because really there's not, besides Kindred, who's designed for the jungle like, yeah, that's the key.
[00:05:15] Speaker B: The marksmen that work in jungle are designed to be junglers in the first place, because it's not just kindred, it's like graves.
It's some mages that are marksman ish sometimes.
[00:05:29] Speaker A: And the riot really doesn't want ezreal jungle to ever be a thing again. So they're kind of. That's one thing they've actually been consistent about, is trying to keep those other marksmen out of the jungle. Yeah.
[00:05:41] Speaker B: Ever since Haru got a world skin for ezreal jungle.
[00:05:45] Speaker A: Yay.
[00:05:45] Speaker B: That is a thing. By the way, if you weren't aware, the Samsung Ezreal skin is not for their marksman. It was for their substitute jungler.
[00:05:52] Speaker A: Yup. And I think I used that as a 500 point jeopardy. Question once.
[00:05:56] Speaker B: I think you did.
[00:05:58] Speaker A: Uh, but, uh, so there's. I mean, let's start with mid lane because it's a little bit easier.
[00:06:08] Speaker B: Most of them show up too. There are. There are some in top lane. We'll cover that briefly. But most of the marksmen outside of bot lane show up in mid lane. This is where you're seeing Tristana. You're seeing now, Lucian. Again, you're seeing Corki. Those are like the big three in mid lane.
[00:06:24] Speaker A: Ezreal as well.
[00:06:26] Speaker B: You're seeing ezreal less than those three, but, like, he's definitely there right now. Graves is sometimes showing up in mid lane.
[00:06:35] Speaker A: I think Varys is the other one.
[00:06:37] Speaker B: Yep. Barris, Kaisa and Caitlyn, I've seen occasionally in mid lane.
[00:06:42] Speaker A: Yep. And then there's also the niche of kog'maw, but that's a little different. Cause you don't play him as a marksman when you play kogmaw.
[00:06:48] Speaker B: Kog'maw mid is an actual mage, not a marksman. So that's the distinction there. That's why we're not including kog'maw in this.
[00:06:55] Speaker A: And one of the.
If you're paying attention to those champions we listed outside of, really, varus, they all share a pretty common feature, which is all of them have a dad.
And that's one of the things that, like, that's the reason Tristana, like, I'm not really gonna cut Corky because he was af. Like, when he was package Corki, he was just kind of a mid laner. But I. Tristana as the example, that's the reason she was able to function as a mid laner for so long before. This is because her relative safety, that having that dash provides her. You know, usually you think of ad carries or marksman as the super squishy. Like, everyone wants to jump on them. Champions having that ability to just kind of farm in the shorter lane and the long range dash to safety is one of the things that allowed her to actually function in that role for so long. The reason she was actually played was her ability to side lane.
[00:07:55] Speaker B: I want to give an example. This is a game I played three days ago.
I played a game of Tristana actually as a marksman in this particular game, but the interaction was with a mid laner. So that's why I'm mentioning it.
Tristana can just rocket jump out of almost everything mid laners do. I had a vex who is specifically an anti mobility champion ult me, and then I rocket jumped out of her fear from her w just timing it correctly when she landed.
[00:08:23] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:08:25] Speaker B: Literally won the game off that play.
[00:08:27] Speaker A: Yeah. For those that don't know, Tristana's rocket jump can be buffered, which means if you are hit by CC during the cast time, not during the travel time, but during the, like, what is it, half second? Yeah. The windup, you will still be Cc'd, but you will still move. Unless it is like a veager cage that specifically stops movement, or I believe a knock up. I think knock up still stop it.
[00:08:53] Speaker B: Wrong in both cases, really. If you are hit by vgar Cage's stun or a knockup during the windup, you'll then just jump after the thing hits you.
[00:09:04] Speaker A: Okay. I didn't realize you can just jump out of it.
[00:09:06] Speaker B: She can rocket. That's why she can rocket jump out of like, Blitzcrank grab, too.
The key is that it's hard to land veegar cage to be an instant stun on spawning. And if she jumps into the cage, it instantly knocks her down.
[00:09:21] Speaker A: Yeah.
And I should say Ezreal's dash works the same way.
It's a shorter window to do it because it's a shorter windup. But I mean, that's why I pick Ezreal into Blitzcrank every time.
[00:09:36] Speaker B: That's why everyone picks Ezreal into Blitzcrank, because he's about the hardest counter blitzcrank has. Because he can just body block hooks for his teammates and also negate the hook.
[00:09:47] Speaker A: Mm hmm.
[00:09:50] Speaker B: Sivir is like one of the only other champions capable of doing that.
[00:09:53] Speaker A: Yep.
But what I will say is one of the reasons it started happening.
Mark Marksman in the mid lane has started happening a bit more now. Actually goes back to preseason with the lane changes of the changes to the walls and moving the bushes back. It gave that extra bit of safety and plus the Buffs making marksman actually kind of viable champions again, that they can actually come back into the mid lane and have a chance of surviving.
[00:10:27] Speaker B: And again, almost everyone we mentioned there is a good one v one champion to begin with.
[00:10:33] Speaker A: Mm hmm. And that's why that specifically is one of the reasons Varus can be played mid is. He is good even without a dash. He's good at a one v one, but if you fall behind, he still has enough range that he can farm safely from a distance.
Now, one of the reasons it works a little better in pro play than in solo queue is assassins tend to not be played in pro. And while the matchups can be a little bit favorable in the early game, like, you can poke assassins out, typically at level six, they can still kill you.
[00:11:09] Speaker B: Yep. They usually just need base damages to do so. At level six, they don't need items yet, which sucks. Is the marksman.
[00:11:18] Speaker A: Yes. I remember a specific game. This was years ago. Like, I was just playing with friends. I think I was quirky mid into Zed, and, like, I had probably triple his farm. It was probably like 50 to, like, less than 20. And then he hit six, and Shane killed me, and there was. It didn't matter.
[00:11:45] Speaker B: So the other, like, key here for these marksmen is, with only a couple exceptions, like Tristana, I think is one of the only ones I would say is an exception to this.
They tend to be more spell heavy in the mid lane.
That's why you're not going to typically see Vayne mid, even though she shows up top, which we'll get to in a moment, because you're against usually ranged champions in the mid lane, which means you're not really able to auto attack them the same way you can in bot lane, where you might have a tank, or a top lane where you're fighting a melee.
So you need to be champions that can actually apply their threat from a distance beyond just auto attack distance generally.
[00:12:35] Speaker A: And that's also why one of the outliers to that rule is Caitlyn, because she has the longest base auto attack range. So it doesn't really matter.
[00:12:45] Speaker B: Yep. And that's why Tristana works, even though she is auto attack centric, because she has one of the longest dashes in the game. Rocket jump goes farther than almost any other champions. Dash.
[00:12:56] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it's very far.
[00:13:00] Speaker B: Which means she can actually get on top of those mages and then murder them.
So that's a lot about mid lane. I think the other key is just marksmen are good at destroying turrets and destroying mid lane turret gives you a lot of map control. It opens the map up so it's easier to invade the enemy jungle, easier to take their camps and deny the enemy team resources. Like marksmen are good at taking the turret. So that's the other thing is they don't need to roam to win the map.
[00:13:28] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:13:30] Speaker B: In top lane, however, it's a very different beast. The marksmen that exist in top lane, you have champions like Quinn that are actually intended for top lane.
Then you have champions like Lucian, who is a counter pick to a very specific top laner, and Vayne, who is a counterpick to basically most tanks in the top lane.
Is there any other marksman that's regularly top? So sort of are we counting twisted fate?
[00:14:00] Speaker A: Yes. That's what I was gonna bring up is because the way you play him top lane is you're basically playing him as a marksman.
And technically Teemo's a marksman, but we're not counting Teemo. He's intended for top.
[00:14:15] Speaker B: Yeah, he's in the Quinn boat of he may be a marksman, but he's actually intended for that lane.
So why are we seeing Lucian and Vayne specifically?
[00:14:26] Speaker A: So, I mean, Lucian is because he is a specific counter to gangplank as a champion.
Yep. Lucians kit just kind of destroys gangplanks kit.
[00:14:40] Speaker B: Yep. I think this is lessened somewhat by action existing now who also does it for the exact same reason. Yeah, but in both of their cases it's because they're double tap on their auto attacks. Lucian gets it from casting any spell. Action gets it as his passive lets them delete gangplank's barrels from two health, which gangplank himself struggles to do.
[00:14:59] Speaker A: Mm hmm.
[00:15:02] Speaker B: So it makes it really hard for Gangplank to actually do half the things he wants to do and thats why its a counterpick. Its just in laning phase. Specifically Lucian and action just negate gangplanks ability to counterplay them.
[00:15:17] Speaker A: Yup. And Lucian specifically, even if he does manage to get a barrel chain off his dash is far enough and instant enough that you can more than likely get out of it.
[00:15:27] Speaker B: Yep. You can literally see the chain coming and dodge if you have good reflexes.
[00:15:32] Speaker A: Yep. Plus, Gangplank's early game is one of his weaker points against ranged champions. And Lucian excels in the early game and can really just chain punish a gangplank if he's not getting ganked.
[00:15:46] Speaker B: Yep. Literally you shoot the Q through a minion hit gangplank with it, kill his barrel, and then just dash on him and murder him. Because what is he gonna do at that point?
[00:15:55] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:15:57] Speaker B: You've just killed his ability to combo you.
[00:16:00] Speaker A: So Lucian's a specific counterpick, but let's swap over to Vayne. Cause this is a.
[00:16:06] Speaker B: Like, she's probably the most prevalent marksman that's not supposed to be top that shows up in top lane.
[00:16:11] Speaker A: Yeah. And get has been complained about for years because there's not a super great way to solve it. Like.
[00:16:20] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:16:21] Speaker A: Without. Because the reason she gets played top is because she can just get a free laning phase against the tank because.
[00:16:32] Speaker B: Or most fighters.
[00:16:33] Speaker A: Yeah. Just because really, the existence of, um.
Oh, God. I don't remember what her e is, but the knockback.
[00:16:43] Speaker B: Condemn.
[00:16:44] Speaker A: Condemn. Yes. Thank you. Um, like, if anyone gets on top of her, unless they have multiple ways to get on top of her, she just condemns you backward, tumbles away, and then fills you with silver bolts as you slowly malphite walk at her.
[00:17:01] Speaker B: Yep. Pretty much. And that's. That's really the key, is just she does percent max health, true damage. So she cuts through tanks no matter what they build.
And she has two different ways to play keep away so that those tanks literally just never get to fight her while she whittles them down and gets to just free farm so she can scale to a late game vein.
[00:17:21] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:17:21] Speaker B: Now, I'm just gonna mention this because it's really straightforward how to fix this. Junglers. If you have a vain top on the enemy team, just show up. She's terrible at two v one ing early, like, legitimately terrible at pre six and not great post six until she has items.
[00:17:37] Speaker A: And just by the nature of the matchup she's gonna be in, she's probably gonna shove.
[00:17:43] Speaker B: Yep. So you show up, you collect the free kills. Once your tank has a couple kills on her, it doesn't matter anymore because they walk at her, she knocks them away, then they keep walking at her and stat check her.
[00:17:54] Speaker A: Mm hmm.
Yeah. It's like she has the advantage in the early game and the super late game, but if the tank is ever ahead of her, then she does not have the advantage until she catches up, which is typically the super late game.
[00:18:13] Speaker B: All right, so that's marksman and other rules. Hopefully, that helps a bit. Hopefully, uh, helps you better understand what you should do if you are not in one of those roles or if you are against a marksman. That's. That's the other thing is, like, we're talking about how they like these roles because they're the champions that can try to be safe there. It's because they're really vulnerable to ganks. Ganks and assassins. That's the banes of marksman.
[00:18:39] Speaker A: And ganks from assassins.
[00:18:41] Speaker B: Yeah.
You want to kill a team that has too many marksmen, just play Rengar God.
He's the one that marksmen in particular hate the most. There's other assassins that are probably a better fit for your specific game, but Marksman hate Rengar because Rengar is super front loaded and just deletes the marksman before they can react.
[00:19:04] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:19:05] Speaker B: From stealth. Like, they'll know he's coming because they have the warning indicator over their head, but it doesn't matter. They can't stop you even with the warning.
Okay, speaking of assassins, we have a trinket tip today that comes from forwards alumni. Kanga drew.
His trinket tip is to remember that Zedong always appears behind you when he ults. Now, this does not mean towards your base. This means literally to the backside of wherever your character is currently facing when the ult has him arrive.
[00:19:42] Speaker A: Mm hmm. It's one of, like, three, like, character direction specific, like, interactions left in the game.
[00:19:52] Speaker B: Yeah, there's him. There's Cassiopeia. I can't think of another one, but I think Shaco has one more.
[00:19:57] Speaker A: Shaco deals more damage from behind.
[00:20:01] Speaker B: There you go. So, yeah, it's what this means is, oh, and he also, by the way, always arrives facing you.
Facing your back, specifically.
[00:20:12] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:20:13] Speaker B: What this means is when you have learned the timing of when will Zed arrive after he casts his ult, you can just time your cc to be like, oh, you have appeared at my back instantly. Fuck you.
[00:20:27] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:20:29] Speaker B: Kangaju gave this as a trinket tip because he played a game of Ahri and just charmed his ed out of his ult because of this. But this works on most champions, and I mentioned that he's facing you because that means this works on Cassiopeia. If you just ult behind you with perfect timing, he'll arrive and almost instantly be stunned, and then you can throw down your miasma and prevent him from snapping back to his shadow when the stun ends.
[00:20:54] Speaker A: What this also means, and I'm thinking again, like, you're an ADC in bot lane getting ganked by one.
Try to have your. If you have, like, a support with CC, try to have your back to them so he is closer to them when he appears.
[00:21:09] Speaker B: Yep. It means make sure your back is towards your turret. If he's turret diving you without minions, it means make sure your back is away from you if you're going to be immediately using a dash when he arrives to try to run away.
[00:21:21] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:21:21] Speaker B: So you want to point your back towards the direction that you want him to be. So he's further away from your dash that you're about to use.
[00:21:30] Speaker A: And yeah, if you have teammates around, like, try not to, like, click around randomly so that way they can better tell where he's going to appear.
[00:21:37] Speaker B: Yep.
This also means if there's like, ground effect stuff, like a vhagar cage, you can literally just put Zed into it.
[00:21:48] Speaker A: Or like, which is very funny.
[00:21:50] Speaker B: Singed pool is another one. There's a few like that. So, yeah, that's. That's the trinket tip is Zed always appears behind you when he ults.
Alright, we're gonna get at least one listener question done before we wrap up for today.
So our question, our first question comes from Prince of winners, who writes hello, prince of winners. Here a few questions. I'm not sure if you've answered this before, but do you have any tips on targeting wards, such as ones that are blocked by Baron's big model or void grubs?
Alright. For Baron specifically, the trick is literally to pan your camera to the left or to the right.
[00:22:28] Speaker A: Yep, that's what I always do.
[00:22:31] Speaker B: The. The angle you are looking at Baron will shift if you do. If you put him on the edges of your screen, which will move it enough that you can click on the ward, you can also zoom in.
I think the default bind is still just scroll your mouse wheel.
[00:22:48] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:22:51] Speaker B: And zooming in is usually the answer for a ward that's on top of the void grubs because they don't kick wards around like other epic monsters do, which is really annoying.
Sometimes. The answer literally has to be just aggra, the void grubs. And then you can click on the word, which sucks.
[00:23:07] Speaker A: Mm hmm.
[00:23:08] Speaker B: I hate that answer because then you take a bunch of damage.
[00:23:10] Speaker A: But it's funny. The only ever, I think the only time I've actually zoomed in, like, for purpose besides that, is clicking on a thresh lantern, which is specifically for avoiding clicking on wards if the enemy puts a ward on the thresh lantern.
[00:23:24] Speaker B: True.
[00:23:25] Speaker A: Shout out to g two.
[00:23:27] Speaker B: Yes.
So, yeah, that's really it. It's mostly just learning how to manipulate your camera. This is a reason that locked camera is bad, by the way, because if you're playing locked camera, you literally cannot pan your camera to the left or right to be able to see the ward to click on it.
[00:23:47] Speaker A: Yeah. Know what you're. If you're gonna play locked camera, like, I still play locked camera for like probably like 60% of the game at least know what your bind is? Like I rebound my camera lock to be spacebar. So instead of just having like spacebar recenter my camera, it just relocks it. So it kind of does the same thing.
[00:24:04] Speaker B: So you just have spacebar to toggle camera lock basically. Yeah, yeah, that's. That would be the way to do it. A lot of people will literally just hold spacebar in team fights to play locked camera during team fights and then play the rest of the game unlocked.
That works too. Like, I think a lot of pros do that specifically.
But yeah, it's at least, even if you do mostly play locked camera, at least know how to unlock your camera so you can pan it to kill those wards. I think it's hopefully you're killing it is. Why by default I still have mine on the default because I barely ever hit it because I don't want my camera locked. I just hold spacebar when I want my character to be locked on.
But yeah, it's generally when you're clearing wards in these pits, you're not in a like high intensity situation. You should have the free time to unlock your camera, pan it, kill the ward, and then you can relock it and run away afterwards.
[00:25:02] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:25:02] Speaker B: Or if someone shows up, you can just hit your locked camera button again and run away.
Alright. And double trinket tip. Because Prince of Winters sent in a trinket tip himself, which says when you clear a ward, a small amount of vision lingers on you. What I like to do is faint the direction I'm going. For example, say the enemy red is up and you're playing blue side. I will clear a ward near topside, then walk towards their red buff, but not actually go there. Sometimes this will cause the enemy midintop to leave Lane to address the invade. But you didn't invade at all. Instant priority.
I do this all the time and I love the. This is a trinket tip prince of winners has sent in because, yes, this is absolutely something you should do. Be mindful and aware of what information you are giving to the enemy. Because if you can give them misinformation, you can force them to make wrong decisions.
[00:25:55] Speaker A: Mm hmm. I'll also do this with like, if I'm clearing a pink ward, I'll do the first three hits at my normal attack speed and then delay the last hit in case they were like timing a cc over the wall to throw at me. I'll like hit it three times, walk away and then walk back for the fourth. Things like that.
[00:26:14] Speaker B: Or even just things like if you're a ranged champion, hitting the first three from within your maximum range, running in a different direction to get the fourth hit at max range, waiting for that vision to fade and then going a different way, they will generally assume you went in the direction you were running. Why else would you run to the edge of your range before getting that last hit if not to get somewhere else sooner?
[00:26:35] Speaker A: Mm hmm.
[00:26:36] Speaker B: So yeah, this is, this is great. Absolutely do this.
All right, let's do one more. We got, we got time. Let's get a question in from Luis. Prince of winners did send another question. We'll answer the other one next week.
We want to spread the love around here. So Luis writes in hi, I'm an old guy who recently started playing lol. I know I'll never be diamond level, but who cares, right?
All right Louise, other than the recently started playing lol I'm an old guy and I've made Emerald diamond feels within my grasp. If I can do it, you can do it. Don't let age be an excuse.
Alright, so Luis then continues. Anyway, I have a very basic question. Totally for what exactly is scaling? How does it work? Killing minions scales the same as killing jungle monsters or other players. Thanks guys.
Alright, when we when people talk about scaling, what they mean is relative power levels at different amounts of items in someone's regular build. So for example, since we talked about marksman mid earlier, a lot of marksmen are currently rushing either static shiv or Kraken Slayer for the one item power spike. This is an item that does not have crit, but it gives them the attack speed ad and proc that lets them be strong on one item they haven't scaled yet. They're generally not any stronger than any other champion at one item.
By comparison, when im playing brand mid I have two items that I care about for my damage, black fire torch and liandrys.
Everything else I buy is for the utility of it. I want a heal cut item or I want Rylais to slow people because my damage is not going to go up no matter what. I buy as much from my 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th item as it is from those first two.
That's scaling. Brand has crap Ap ratios frankly, so his scaling is kind of poor by comparison. When I play Veigar I suck in the early game, I suck at one item. But by the time you hit four or five items, Veigar's got several hundred ap from his passive. He has very high ap ratios. He's much scarier at five items than brand is. Yep, that's scaling. That's what scaling means. It's not about jungle monsters versus minions. It's about relative power at a number of items at a different breakpoint. And those break points vary depending on the game, depending on the champion being discussed.
You want to talk about a couple marksman examples real quick?
[00:29:26] Speaker A: Well, I was just going to. Real quick, like kind of to the other side of the question of like with, you know, jungle monsters versus scaling versus or versus jungle monsters versus minions versus players. That's when we're talking about that. It's about like the methods of gaining gold in the game. So like if a team is ever like, oh, we need to just sit back and scale, they mean we need to just stop trying to take PvP fights and instead just farm. Because unless there's shutdowns, any champion kill will give 300 gold for a kill and 150 per for an assist.
[00:30:03] Speaker B: Split among shared.
[00:30:05] Speaker A: Yes.
And 300 gold is if you perfect farm. Like two minion waves, two and a half.
I always forget the exact amount, but.
[00:30:23] Speaker B: Yeah, it's not a lot.
[00:30:25] Speaker A: It's not a ton.
So like, and obviously like killing your opponent's always good, but if you have to miss, you know, three minion waves crashing into your tower to chase someone three lanes to kill them, it's actually probably not worth it.
[00:30:41] Speaker B: A full six minions in a regular non cannon wave is worth 105 gold.
[00:30:46] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:30:48] Speaker B: So it's three non cannon waves is a kill.
[00:30:52] Speaker A: Yeah. And since in the aero game, a cannon spawns every two waves, three waves of minions is worth more than a kill.
[00:31:00] Speaker B: If you perfect them, a cannon is every three waves. But yes, yes.
[00:31:04] Speaker A: Oh, did I say two? My bad.
[00:31:05] Speaker B: Yeah, but yeah, so that's why like when, when people are like, guys, guys, we scale, it's okay. There's what they're saying, what they're actually trying to communicate, but they're, the using jargon is we don't need to take fights. It's okay to concede dragon, it's okay to concede void grubs, it's okay to concede turrets because as long as the gold deficit does not grow too large to where they have more items than us at a later point in the game, if we can keep item parity, we will be stronger later.
[00:31:35] Speaker A: Yup. And to your point, about marksman. Examples vein excellent example of this. Like it doesn't matter if a Vayne is one in nine, she is scary when she has three or four items. There's the joke about the Yasuo zero 10 power spike. It's because it does not matter how bad the Yasuo did. Once he has his two core items, he's gonna start killing people.
[00:31:59] Speaker B: Yep, but he has to get there, and that's the scaling.
[00:32:04] Speaker A: But if you don't want to care about scaling, you could just play Lucian in the top lane and run down the gangplank and win the game before your opponent gets a chance to scale.
And that's actually correct advice.
[00:32:17] Speaker B: Yes, he is good into gangplank. All right guys, this has been episode 438 of the Forwards podcast. A reminder, we are looking for hosts. If you want to join the team, send us an audition to theforwordspodcastmail.com.
give an audition of yourself giving a trinket tip like you just heard a couple examples of during this episode. We look forward to hearing from you. I've been Jack Soman for free shooter. Have a great night.
[00:32:45] Speaker A: Bye.
[00:32:50] Speaker B: Thanks for listening to the four Wards podcast. If you liked what you heard and you want to support the podcast, head on over to patreon.com the four awards podcast to give us some support. We appreciate you and of course listeners. Please don't forget to write your questions into the
[email protected] so we can answer them on the show.
