Episode Transcript
[00:00:04] Speaker A: Welcome to the Four Wards podcast.
Hey, what's up? It's Eric Brah, voice of Draven, Jerks, and Velkoz. And you're listening to the Forwards podcast, here to help you move forward and lead.
Hello, and welcome to episode 430 of the four Wards podcast. I'm your host, as usual. I'm Jack Soman, and I've got with me four other wards to help you move forward in League of Legends. That's right. We have more than four wards tonight. We've got crush you, of course.
[00:00:50] Speaker B: So now we have one for every person on your team.
The number of pink words that should be on the map at all times.
[00:00:59] Speaker A: True.
Speaking of pink wards, our resident pink words, slushy otter, is here.
[00:01:04] Speaker C: That hello right at the very beginning was very unnecessarily loud.
[00:01:10] Speaker B: That's always true.
[00:01:12] Speaker C: No, not to that degree.
[00:01:15] Speaker A: I don't know.
[00:01:15] Speaker C: I don't usually have to take my headphones off.
[00:01:18] Speaker A: It gets compressed on the recording, so I don't worry about it too much.
We've also got free shooter here tonight.
[00:01:27] Speaker B: Hello?
[00:01:30] Speaker A: That's all you're gonna say?
[00:01:32] Speaker D: Yeah, that's all I got. I'm tired.
[00:01:37] Speaker A: And this podcast is 40% canadian tonight because we've also got witch at Black Mass.
[00:01:42] Speaker E: Bon journo. I'll hit him with the French. Hello. And that's it. Cause I'm also tired.
[00:01:46] Speaker A: Perfect.
He's italian.
We're some tired wards, but we're here, and we're here to help you move forward in League of Legends.
Guys, we've said it a couple times. We are looking for ideas for what you want the Patreon to look like. Send us that, but also send your listener questions. We only got one new question this week, guys.
Send both of them to theforwordspodcastmail.com so we can answer your questions on the show and so we can build the patreon of your dreams.
We also stream on Twitch. I can be found at Twitch TV. Jacksallman. Crush streams at Twitch TV. Crushyou slushy streams at Twitch TV. Slushyotter. And she's on TikTok. Lushiotter. Free shooter can be found at Twitch TV. Freeeshooter. That's right. There are three e's in free, and which is twitch. Handle is twitch tv one. Which one? And I have no idea if he actually streams anymore.
[00:02:44] Speaker E: Been playing on the, like, streaming on the other spire account, so that's what I've been doing instead.
[00:02:53] Speaker A: Plug it, then. I will.
[00:02:55] Speaker E: It's Spyro. Lol. So we. I just had started a community for just low competitive league. It's fun.
[00:03:06] Speaker A: Fair enough.
All right. And again, listeners, please seriously send questions the four wards podcastmail.com dot okay, we have a topic tonight, and as is usual on non patch weeks, we're pulling the topic out of our ass. But it's a term we use a lot and we're gonna define it and help you guys identify it. Today we're gonna talk about win conditions.
So let's start with defining it. What is a win condition? Cause obviously, like, if you wanna be literal, the win condition is destroying the nexus.
[00:03:38] Speaker B: Damn it. That was my contribution.
[00:03:40] Speaker C: That was the joke I was gonna make.
[00:03:42] Speaker A: So when we say win condition, we don't mean destroying the nexus, we mean.
[00:03:48] Speaker C: It'S the how do you get there?
[00:03:50] Speaker A: Exactly. Exactly.
So your win condition is the avenue in which your team can get to a point where they will win the game.
[00:04:03] Speaker C: You can have multiple on a team, by the way. It's not like you have a single one, but identifying which of those is most likely to come to fruition and easiest to get to is going to make that, well, easier.
[00:04:19] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:04:20] Speaker D: So take the easy. Starting point is your first win condition can kind of be defined by the draft.
Your champions kind of shape what your win condition are, by what point in the game your team is most powerful. If you have a bunch of early game powerhouses, your win condition is to get a large lead and end the game fast or make the other team surrender. If you have a lot of light scaling champions, your win condition is to, you know, try and stay even and just make the game go late until your champions are powerful.
[00:04:59] Speaker C: Another one. And this one I kind of hate bringing up, but it is relevant. So we are going to talk about it is sometimes you just have a skill gap in a specific lane. If your top laner is emerald and they are against a bronze top laner, it doesn't guarantee that they're going to win the game.
But if I'm the jungler, that's probably where I'm placing my bet.
[00:05:24] Speaker A: Yep. So that was one of the things I wanted to talk about is identifying emergent win conditions of sometimes you're gonna load into a game and you go, oh, well, we have the emerald top laner and he's against a bronze, surely that's my win condition. And then the emerald top laner feeds three kills in five minutes because he doesn't respect the enemy jungler.
[00:05:45] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:05:46] Speaker A: You now have to identify a new win condition.
Sometimes you load into a game and your ad carry has six kills in five minutes.
They're now your win condition regardless of what the draft was.
[00:05:59] Speaker C: Yep, yep.
[00:06:00] Speaker A: Like, the draft is no longer relevant because that person is now your win condition. They have demonstrated that they are competent mechanically. Your job is to make sure they don't do stupid shit.
Doesn't matter what role you are, either. If you're the top laner, that means now your job is gonna be to teleport down there and snowball them further or to create pressure so they can do their job.
[00:06:21] Speaker C: Yep. Teleport down. Get dragon, get power. Send them mid lane. Start poking away at that tower.
[00:06:27] Speaker A: Exactly. So that, to me, is the harder part of identifying your win condition is when the win condition changes because the game state changed, because sometimes you'll have it where they're, like, a really late game champion and your team has no frontline, and you're like, well, we're just kind of fucked. Like, sometimes you just have a top lane Kayle, and you're like, this is a terrible choice. Why would you play top Lane Kayle?
And then they just murder their opponent repeatedly, and it's like, well, it doesn't matter. They're accelerated. They're now the win condition.
[00:06:58] Speaker C: I guess I'm going full tank Kha'zix to protect them.
[00:07:02] Speaker D: I had a Kayle solo kill a Darius at level or. No, sorry, an olaf at level one the other day. That shouldn't happen. But Kayle's now the win condition.
[00:07:12] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:07:12] Speaker A: Yeah.
And unfortunately, those players also tend to be the ones that push their lead too hard and get caught. So part of identifying them in condition is identifying how to make sure that when they overextend, your team doesn't get fucked for it.
[00:07:28] Speaker C: Or just being there when they overextend so that it's no longer an overextension.
[00:07:33] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:07:34] Speaker D: I feel like it's easiest to do this when you're the jungler of. Okay, which of my lanes got a lead on their own? I am now their babysitter.
[00:07:43] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:07:44] Speaker C: Yeah. Mid lane two. Pushing room.
[00:07:46] Speaker A: Mid and support. Cause. Okay. Supports. Your job is not to be the babysitter for the ad carry for the entire game. Your job is to be the babysitter for the ad carry until a win condition emerges, and then you are the babysitter for whoever the win condition is.
[00:08:01] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:08:02] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:08:06] Speaker B: So, yes, I will say that one of the best things you could do as a support is to learn what roam timers are.
[00:08:14] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:08:15] Speaker B: Like, yeah.
It is the thing that I see most in need of improvement from the support specifically.
[00:08:25] Speaker C: But, like, if I'm Yumi and I have a zero two Kalista and a 40 yi, I'm gonna go attached to yi.
Kalista. I'm sorry. You are on your own. You are dead weight. I'm gonna go support the person who's actually gonna win us this game.
[00:08:41] Speaker A: Yep. But also, like, hopefully the Kalista picked after Ewan is just an idiot. Why would you ever play Kalista yumi?
[00:08:49] Speaker E: That sounds prettus.
[00:08:50] Speaker C: Because people are stupid. I saw this in my bot lane recently.
I am not describing, like, a hypothetical. The ye, the Callista and the Yumi all existed.
[00:09:01] Speaker A: I know.
[00:09:02] Speaker C: And the Yuumi stayed attached to the Callista.
[00:09:06] Speaker D: At the same time, though, there is, like.
Because even if it's like, one lane is getting, like, decently far ahead, there's still, like, scaling considerations to think about. Like, if you're. What's a strong early game mid laner that just always wins lane.
I'm drawing a blank right now.
[00:09:27] Speaker E: Pantheon's pretty good if, like, they pressure.
[00:09:30] Speaker D: Yeah. Like, so say you have a pantheon that's like up to zero. Like, learn roan timers to go try and gank for them. But if you're like, say you have, like, a zero zero smolder, that is like, up cs. They're not. Not a win condition just cause Pantheon is ahead.
[00:09:49] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:09:49] Speaker C: No, the pantheon should be using his lead to then get smulder ahead. Exactly. That's the win condition.
[00:09:54] Speaker A: There you have, like, the dual win condition of Pantheon is how you're winning the game. Currently, smolder is how you will kill the nexus. So your win condition is to get Pantheon to a point where he can help smolder do his job.
[00:10:07] Speaker D: And, like, if you have the zero four Kalista, stop helping to Kalista. She's not a win condition.
[00:10:12] Speaker A: Yeah, but yeah, in general, and I think especially for junglers, but also for Mids roaming, this is something that people get caught up in a lot.
If one of your laners is really struggling, you will not win the game by trying to help them.
[00:10:29] Speaker C: No, don't take a loss.
[00:10:32] Speaker A: There are exceptions.
I have talked about this game before, but I remember playing a game with Sparrow, a rundown listener who plays Evelyn a lot. And the enemy ad carry was really, really fed. And our ADC was tilted and threatening to quit. So he just spam ganks. The enemy ad carry. This wasn't to get our ad carry back into the game. He made sure to steal all of the kills. It was to snowball himself with the first shutdown. And the subsequent kills to the point where the fed enemy ad carry couldn't play the game because they couldn't survive long enough to actually apply their lead.
[00:11:11] Speaker C: And it worked.
It had probably the side effect of, hey, my jungler showed up for me three times now and I'm not dying anymore. I'm not tilted as much. Maybe I can just stay in the game and not make it a four V five.
[00:11:25] Speaker A: It was still a four v five. The dude was useless, but he wasn't tilted and making the things worse anymore.
[00:11:32] Speaker C: He was a body to throw at the enemy.
[00:11:33] Speaker D: Honestly, sometimes the best thing to do in that scenario is let that person, like, assuming it's out of landing phase already, just let that person sit in a side lane farming. And whenever anyone on the enemy team shows up to fight them, you take a fight on the other side of the map. They'll probably fall farther behind, but odds are whoever they sent is more powerful than that person is, so you'll probably be in a better spot to actually take a fight. I've won games like that where I'm super far behind on the ad carry and they're like, 100 riven is coming to hunt me down in a side lane. And the four v four on the other side is just an even fight at that point. My team wins it.
[00:12:14] Speaker A: Yep. I was going to say I've been the losing lane. That is now, like, the enemy's win condition is my direct lane opponent.
[00:12:22] Speaker C: Yep.
[00:12:22] Speaker A: And my job becomes keep that person occupied so that the lead is stuck in one place and not fucking over. My teammates just don't die. Yeah.
[00:12:33] Speaker C: Like, if you can neutralize their win condition by just existing, congratulations. That is good.
[00:12:43] Speaker D: Oh, yeah.
[00:12:43] Speaker A: So speaking of that, that was really good. How do you identify the enemies win condition? Cause it's. It's usually the same process as identifying your own, but not always.
[00:12:55] Speaker B: One of the. One of the things you can do to identify the enemy twin condition is to, like, look at what they're doing. Like, if they're prioritizing dragons, that's. That's what they're looking for as a win position. They're looking for that for the soul, at least possibly the elder to win the game off of.
[00:13:11] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:13:13] Speaker C: Also doing that and comparing it to your own logic when deciding, okay, if I were the enemy, what would my win condition be?
[00:13:24] Speaker A: Yup.
[00:13:24] Speaker C: Can help you to identify when your opponents have misidentified their win condition and thus allowing you to capitalize.
[00:13:32] Speaker A: Yes, but also allowing you to correctly predict what they're gonna do and not be in the bad position. I have literally had games where I tell someone, don't be here, you're about to die in 15 seconds. Sure enough, 15 seconds. Three people come out of the bush when I'm in call with them. Usually they're not there anymore in solo queue. Unfortunately they die anyway because they don't fucking listen.
[00:13:58] Speaker D: An important thing with this is if the enemy has an ahead split pusher, it's really important because especially in solo queue when, as Jack said, communication is harder, people don't listen. And, you know, it's just not as easy to get information out.
You always have to be asking in the back of your head, I don't see the fed fiora. Could she be like pushing into our base right now? How long do we have to get someone back?
[00:14:28] Speaker C: Because she be right behind me.
[00:14:31] Speaker D: Especially with grubs being a thing like split pushes can end the game fast.
[00:14:38] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
If they got six grubs, there are champions that can just delete turrets in 2 seconds.
It's kind of nuts.
[00:14:50] Speaker D: I was doing like an in house five v five. And that happened to us because our, we were against a fed, Diana, who just like got low in a team fight, split off, but then just ran up mid lane and ended the game while the rest of their team just held us in a fight.
[00:15:05] Speaker A: Yep. On that note, something I've seen misidentified as a win condition a lot. I have had so many games thrown where we have the enemy to a point where they have an open nexus, but they pushed us off and we couldn't end the game. And my team then decides one by one to try to backdoor the nexus over and over for five minutes until the enemy has an insurmountable lead there and the inhibitor respawns and then we.
[00:15:25] Speaker D: Lose the game helps me to oblivion.
[00:15:28] Speaker A: It happens so often. If you got to a point where you exposed the Nexus, you probably don't have to backdoor it to win.
[00:15:38] Speaker C: But screaming ex Peke is fun.
[00:15:42] Speaker A: It can be fun. And there are times when it is correct. Yes, but usually it isn't. Usually you're better off just continuing to do what you did to get to that point in the first place.
[00:15:54] Speaker C: But if I'm Lichmanari, I'm definitely going for it.
[00:15:56] Speaker E: I mean, the best angle to look for a backdoor, to be honest, is if there is a word in the base and it's a tp, that is like the safest way of doing it. You know, you.
[00:16:08] Speaker D: And when you've drawn them into a fight, somewhere else.
[00:16:10] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:16:11] Speaker E: Yes, exactly.
[00:16:12] Speaker A: The time to go for backdoors is when there is a baron or elder dragon or something like that team fight that your team can't win. You wait for the fight to be at a point where they can't recall anymore, and then you teleport to their base.
[00:16:26] Speaker C: I have won so many games already where I'm just like, okay, go start. Baron. The enemy team has vision of it. They will come. They have an exposed nexus. I'm gonna be in the other jungle waiting to see at least four of them. If the fifth is the support, I don't care.
Ideally, I want to see all five. The moment I do, I'm ulting the wall and going through the nexus. The minions won't see me until I'm already halfway there.
Assuming the minions spawn at that exact moment anyways, by the time the enemy team figures it out and actually manages to get somebody out of the fight, the game's over. It's as though I teleported in. So if you have somebody who can kill structures quickly and is mobile enough to get over that wall easily, do that. It's just as effective as teleporting.
[00:17:18] Speaker D: I've won a game where I was one in twelve on Twisted Fate, but I'm twisted fate.
[00:17:28] Speaker A: Those are the times when backdooring can be correct. But also the key there is if you could just win the team fight and not have to do that, why go for the risky play? Usually those circumstances are where after they lost their nexus turrets, the game has stalled out and they have outscaled you. Those are the times when you should then be going to backdoor, not immediately after you break down the Nexus turrets.
[00:17:52] Speaker C: So often the reason, okay, so often the reason I'll do it as Ari in those situations is the nexus is guaranteed as Ari, I have to get into the backline and blow up at least one person without being stopped by their front line or peeled off.
That's a lot harder.
So this is kind of a a good example of identifying which is the easiest path to victory. Yep, the most likely path to victory. And for me, that was, hey, I don't have to aim a charm, and that's fair.
[00:18:30] Speaker A: And I think the words you said there, the most likely path to victory is the thinking that you need to keep in your head. Yeah, that's the key when you're talking about win condition, when condition is your most likely path to victory.
[00:18:44] Speaker D: So I'm gonna bring up two quick points and then a third, like, win condition thing. So the quick points with backdoors are, if you're gonna do what slush is talking about, switch to sweeper, so that way you can kind of have a.
[00:18:58] Speaker A: Safer path in and buy control wards.
[00:19:01] Speaker D: Yes, both. If you're in the position where your nexus is open, make sure you're sweeping out your base and warding the bushes around your base to make it harder for the enemy to try and do that. And so you can catch people doing this on repeat and get back in the game.
[00:19:15] Speaker A: I have literally won games by predicting that the enemy was going to go for a backdoor and just being there.
[00:19:20] Speaker D: Yep.
But the point I was going to kind of pivot to is another misidentified win condition. I see a lot is, you know, you end up na ramming, you win a team fight, you may have like two or three people alive, but you full ace them and your team runs to Baron instead of pushing down mid to take inhibitor towers and then has to peel off Baron because there's three people alive and they weren't strong enough to do it.
[00:19:51] Speaker A: Or at the same time thinking you can end, but death timers aren't long enough yet.
[00:19:56] Speaker D: Yes, pro teams make this mistake. Look at the death timers.
[00:20:04] Speaker E: I think that with the, I mean, this is obviously changed a while ago, but with the new baron in general, like 20 minutes, when it spawns, if you get one kill at 20 minutes, it's almost not even enough. Like, it's like risky still to go for the Baron more often than not, just because the death timer is really, really low where someone can tp or get to the fight. And in addition to that, Baron does a tremendous amount of damage to you in comparison to how it was in prior seasons. So, yup, like you, you have to make sure that whenever you are doing Baron, that, like, you're very concise about, like, how many people are down to be able to actually do it, in my opinion.
[00:20:43] Speaker C: So in that situation where they've only lost one person and Baron's up, don't start doing Baron to actually kill Baron.
[00:20:55] Speaker D: Oh, yeah.
[00:20:56] Speaker E: You can debate them to draw them.
[00:20:57] Speaker C: Into a fight and get more picks and more kills. Then you do the baron.
[00:21:05] Speaker A: A lot of people.
[00:21:05] Speaker D: If you're gonna do that though, this is a situation. Type out that you're doing that in chat like. And when you go in, ping the hell out of the enemy.
[00:21:14] Speaker A: Yep, yep, ping. Specifically the person you're going in on.
Like, ping on my way, and then ping on that person as you go.
[00:21:26] Speaker C: Look, some of us just don't have the dexterity for that.
[00:21:29] Speaker A: I am 38 years old and I can do that.
[00:21:34] Speaker D: I'm 30 with carpal tunnel and I can do it too.
[00:21:38] Speaker C: I'm autistic and in that situation, over stimmed and don't have the dexterity to do that. Slush.
[00:21:42] Speaker A: I have seen you play League of Legends. You do amazing shit with your hands.
[00:21:46] Speaker C: It's all predictive.
[00:21:50] Speaker A: So predict your pings.
[00:21:54] Speaker C: That's not how that works.
[00:21:55] Speaker D: Or just do the predictive chat message.
[00:21:58] Speaker C: Yeah, that's what I would do. I'm not pinging shit. Cause I'm just throwing out my abilities as my prediction as a jungler.
[00:22:06] Speaker E: I mean, I just mass ping and people can mute me. That's okay. I'm good with that.
[00:22:14] Speaker D: Yeah, I'm talking a lot about ping, but, like, in combat, I'm bad at pinging too. Unless I'm already dead. If I'm dead, I'm like, you know, just like the general directing the battle. Like ping, ping, ping, ping, ping, ping, ping.
[00:22:29] Speaker A: All right, which makes sense.
Anything else we want to talk about for win conditions?
[00:22:35] Speaker E: I just wanted to briefly say, I think that whenever you have personally drafted someone that, let's say, needs gold or wants gold, but you're unable to get it, people are able to, other people get the golden. Try not to tilt it, like, hard because certain champions, it's, like, frustrating. For example, if it goes to support, let's say, for example, that's like a thresh or something, right? You have to. I understand that it's a bit frustrating, but at the same time, the gold still in the pocket for your team, you can still utilize it in some capacity, realizing that, like, let's say, supports a bad example, but let's say it goes to your ad carry and you're playing Olaf jungle, right. It's frustrating because you don't get the gold, but your ad carry gets it, right. So just keep in mind that if you don't get the gold, it's not necessarily you can utilize your teammates as your win count. You don't have to be awe on yourself. Granted, it's obviously more risky in that sense because you have to rely on them. But just keep in mind to not tilt is the biggest thing about it.
[00:23:47] Speaker A: No matter what role you are playing, you will not be the hero in every single game. Yeah, learn to be carried. Yep.
[00:23:55] Speaker C: Yeah. Being carried is great. It makes my life. So I had a. I had a soraka in one of my games recently who just won the lane for me, and I'm just like, sitting back and when it was convenient, I'd just join in the fight and just be like, oh, I get a kill. Thank you.
[00:24:13] Speaker E: Nice.
[00:24:13] Speaker D: Oh, yeah.
[00:24:13] Speaker C: But jumping back a moment, I'm not pinging shit as I'm about to go in. I'm the kind of player who avoids building zhonyas. Cause I'm gonna forget to use it.
And I. That is the only active item that I buy and use.
[00:24:30] Speaker A: Yup.
I will avoid buying zhonyas unless I'm playing a champion, where I'm gonna be using it proactively. Like, you dive in, blow your load, and then hit zhonyas to not get countered.
Like that kind of stuff. Yeah.
[00:24:43] Speaker B: Sylas.
[00:24:43] Speaker A: Sometimes, especially if I'm stealing a malphite ult. Ap malphite. Those kinds of champions. Kassadin is another one, vladimir, because you can combine it with pool for an insane amount of ability.
[00:24:58] Speaker D: Yep.
[00:24:59] Speaker A: That kind of stuff is when I buy it. I don't usually buy zhonyas if I'm playing, like, ziggs or something, because, a, in the situations where I'm gonna hit zhonyas, I'm probably dead anyway, and b, I'll forget to hit it.
[00:25:11] Speaker D: I'll usually do it if it's, like, against. Like, they have a big, targeted, obvious thing. Like, yes, Zed is the classic example of I'll just always get it, because even if you get to forget to do it at the start of his ult, you can do it for the pop at the end.
[00:25:28] Speaker A: Yep. Or more.
[00:25:29] Speaker C: Zed is how I trained to use zhonyas. Cause, like, I started buying zhonyas and using zhonyas correctly in season three when zed arifiz meta was happening. So anytime I hear the fish effect or the zed effect, my finger is already on my zhonyas key, ready to go.
[00:25:48] Speaker A: So kind of ties into that whole idea of win condition. Fizz ult is a great example of if you're someone with a zhonyas or if you're Vladimir who can just go untargettable, body blocking the ult from your teammates and then making it do nothing can sometimes be how you win a game.
[00:26:05] Speaker C: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
[00:26:07] Speaker D: It's similar to, like, I'm not amazing at doing this, but I've trained myself against, specifically malphites. When I'm playing ad carry, if malphites on the same screen as me, my finger is on my flash key. And, like, just as soon as I see his ult go, it doesn't matter where my cursor is, I press flash. Sometimes I. My cursor's too close, and I just still flash into it. But, like.
[00:26:34] Speaker C: And a lot of the time, I don't have flash available.
[00:26:36] Speaker D: Yeah, but, like, I just am training that muscle memory of. There is a malphite on my screen. My finger is on the flash key.
[00:26:43] Speaker C: Yeah, I've definitely had that muscle. Good practice for a while.
And, like, it's good enough that in a game, it was an aram the other day, I managed to do it four times in one game despite also pressing f several times when it was not up yet.
[00:27:07] Speaker D: Some malphites tell their ult really hard too.
[00:27:11] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:27:11] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah, for sure.
[00:27:13] Speaker B: I mean, this is why I really like playing sever, because I have enough reaction speed to actually spell shield things like mouth. I ult. Yeah, it's really fun. I've.
I really, really love spell shielding. Mordekaiser Ultra. It's so hilarious.
[00:27:28] Speaker A: Yes, it is hilarious, but it tilts them off the fucking planet.
[00:27:32] Speaker C: Yeah, I did it with nocturne two is, like, really good recently too.
[00:27:37] Speaker A: Got it.
[00:27:38] Speaker C: He tried to mordekaiser ult a teammate of mine, and I blocked it.
[00:27:43] Speaker A: My favorite with Morgana is black shielding Malzahar ults.
[00:27:47] Speaker C: Yay.
[00:27:48] Speaker A: It makes them angry.
[00:27:50] Speaker B: Oracle's good.
My favorite instance of. Of blocking a Mordekaiser ult.
I blocked a Mordekaiser ult by ulting them with Jarvan.
Jarvan's unstoppable while he's in the air in his ult.
[00:28:05] Speaker C: Oh, my God, you're right.
[00:28:07] Speaker A: There's a lot of abilities that make you unstoppable, that can break Mordekaiser ult and a few other ults I hadn't even thought of.
[00:28:14] Speaker B: You try to just allow the ult. It's my arena.
[00:28:18] Speaker C: Yep.
[00:28:21] Speaker A: The easiest one of those, I think, is just Cassante and Ornn, because they both have unstoppables that they can just cast at will.
[00:28:28] Speaker E: And there's also, like, a visual cue for Mordekaiser ult that makes it kind of easier to predict with those champions.
Yeah, I think Illaoi is, like, pretty hard, in my opinion. Cause it's considered, like, a counter to.
Cause whoever uses ult first, essentially. But you can use a Laui Ult in reaction to Mordekaiser casting ult on you.
[00:28:50] Speaker B: I just realized Mordekaiser ult is kind of like a babe Ruth point, isn't it? Like, he's got the mace and just kind of points.
[00:28:56] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:28:58] Speaker D: Calling a shot.
[00:28:59] Speaker C: I love that.
[00:29:00] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:29:01] Speaker C: Eight ball, corn pocket.
Ari into that ground. Over there, 6ft under.
[00:29:11] Speaker A: Dude. I played a game of Mordekaiser the other day where I just kept ulting a Tom Kench as he finally used his ability to jump away because we had burned all of our other stuff that could interrupt it. And every time he would just pop out and then be like, where do I go now? I'm at the edge of the arena. I can't run away anymore. And then I'd kill him.
It was great.
All right, should we do our trinket tip and get to our listener questions?
[00:29:39] Speaker C: Sure, I think so.
[00:29:40] Speaker A: Okay, listeners, this trinket tip comes courtesy of MSI because this morning, as of when we are recording this on Wednesday, Canyon decided to pull an ambition. So our trinket tip is, don't evolve Kha'zix or Kai'sa abilities while you are in combat.
[00:30:00] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:30:00] Speaker A: For context, when Kha'zix hits levels 611 or 16 and puts a point into his ultimate, he can then evolve any one of his four abilities.
If you're like me and use keybinds for your evolves, it's the same buttons as leveling up the ability. Yeah, Kai'sa does this whenever she hits 100 Ad, 100 AP, or 100% attack speed for her basic abilities. In both cases, when you do these evolves, your champion stands still for a second and a half and you can't interrupt it with anything.
You're just self cc'd.
[00:30:38] Speaker C: Mm hmm.
I think you can interrupt it with Zhonya maybe.
[00:30:45] Speaker A: I don't know. I've never had experience when I got an evolve.
[00:30:48] Speaker C: Yeah, I think I've done it with Zhonya's on Kai'sa before by accident.
[00:30:55] Speaker A: I could see that. But none of your other commands will work. You can't input move commands. You can't input other ability commands. You're just cc'd. This trinket tip is because canyon ganked mid, got a kill, which got him level six, and then proceeded to evolve his q while the enemy jungler was beating on his face and lived. And he lived.
[00:31:16] Speaker D: Yes.
[00:31:17] Speaker E: The most BM calculated.
[00:31:20] Speaker A: I don't think so. It was very easy.
[00:31:23] Speaker E: Yeah, I think he, like, immediately jumped away because I, yeah, it was kind of funny.
[00:31:28] Speaker A: I think it was an example of he probably is like me and uses buttons to do the level ups.
[00:31:33] Speaker C: Yep.
[00:31:33] Speaker A: So I have my level ups bound to ZXCv.
[00:31:36] Speaker D: I've done that on Kai'sa where a level up got me over like a threshold and I didn't realize it and went to just, I was like, it's like I hit level ten and just like saw the thing over my queue. Didn't think hit the. Hit the like my. I do like alt Q and it just like. Oh, um hmm. I've been hooked.
[00:32:00] Speaker A: Oh God. It's especially bad if the enemy has a blitz crank or something.
[00:32:04] Speaker C: Yes, I've seen it happen when the enemy team had a briar. Right. Next the Kai'sa.
[00:32:13] Speaker A: Oof.
[00:32:14] Speaker C: Yeah, that was a full charge on the scream.
[00:32:18] Speaker A: Yeah. So be mindful.
[00:32:20] Speaker C: I have my scion too.
[00:32:22] Speaker A: Don't cc yourself.
[00:32:25] Speaker D: I do have a second small trinket tip that I remembered that happened like two weeks ago to me.
[00:32:30] Speaker A: Is it the one you wrote in the document?
[00:32:32] Speaker D: Yes.
[00:32:33] Speaker A: Do you want to save it for next week since it's written down?
[00:32:36] Speaker D: You know what? Sure, we'll save it for next week.
[00:32:39] Speaker A: It's what we should be doing. We're just dumb and don't write them down. Even when they're told to me, I still don't write them down because I'm dumb.
[00:32:47] Speaker E: Yeah, we always forget.
[00:32:48] Speaker A: Yep. All right, it's time for some listener questions. Listeners again. Send your questions to theforwordspodcastmail.com. It's all spelled out so we can answer them on the show because we're probably running out tonight.
So our first question. What's that?
[00:33:05] Speaker E: More the merrier.
[00:33:06] Speaker A: Absolutely. Seriously, send as many questions as you guys want. We want more questions.
So our first question tonight comes from Bringer of Rain, who writes hi wards. I have climbed from silver to plat support since I last rode in. I did it with my favorite heal sluts, sona and seraphine, and the occasional reconnoiter game when my team needed playmaking or anti engagement. Slushy, could you rank sonas skins on the pod? Im sure you have a hot take on DJ Sona.
Ps I play a very average graves now and I finally feel like I bring the rain with his ult.
[00:33:41] Speaker D: Before we get into this, can I tell like a two second anecdote?
[00:33:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:33:46] Speaker D: I have a friend whos a seraphine main. She got autofill jungle. She played seraphine jungle. It went really well.
Like scary well.
[00:33:57] Speaker B: That'S how I guess, like, like in theory, like pretty freaking good.
[00:34:05] Speaker D: But yeah, she was against the yi. She destroyed him. He went like four and eleven. I don't get it.
[00:34:15] Speaker E: That's great.
[00:34:16] Speaker A: Okay, was that enough time for you to pull up Sona's skin slushy?
[00:34:21] Speaker C: I already had it pulled up.
[00:34:24] Speaker B: Prepared. Prepared.
[00:34:28] Speaker C: Yeah, I can definitely rank them on the pod and my co host may disagree with me on some of them.
I don't think you're gonna get as hot a take from me on DJ Sona as you're gonna want. I quite like the skin, if I'm being honest. But we'll get into that. I'm gonna start at the bottom, I think.
[00:34:49] Speaker A: Okay. What's the worst Sona skin?
[00:34:53] Speaker C: It has to be the gukken sonar or however the crap you pronounce that it's a bad recolor. The splash is just dated, and then in game, it's just a bad recolor. Please, just.
It's not worth 975 rpg. Please. No.
[00:35:13] Speaker A: You're basically paying for her instrument to look different because that's the only thing that actually changes.
And I don't know how to pronounce her instrument, so I'm not going to try.
[00:35:22] Speaker C: I'm not. Can we just call it the harp.
[00:35:24] Speaker B: For this, sir Kachin, maybe? I don't know. I don't know.
[00:35:30] Speaker C: After that, silent night Sona is kind of the same, but at least it's in Christmas spirit.
[00:35:39] Speaker B: I would. I dislike muse Sona more than silent night Sona, but they're both pretty low, so I.
[00:35:45] Speaker C: They're both just bad. Yeah, all of them.
[00:35:48] Speaker B: Those three are the.
[00:35:49] Speaker A: My personal worst muse.
[00:35:52] Speaker B: Yeah, that's. I think that's my personal worst as well, because at least, like, the other two do something interesting.
[00:35:59] Speaker A: At least muse Sona has the justification of being 14 years old and no longer sold.
[00:36:05] Speaker C: Yeah, and same with Silent Night Sona.
[00:36:08] Speaker B: That's a point in its favorite.
[00:36:09] Speaker E: I actually like the Silent Night Sona just simply because it was, like, one of my first skins.
[00:36:13] Speaker B: So, yeah, silent night Sona looks.
[00:36:15] Speaker C: Nostalgia is valid.
[00:36:17] Speaker B: Like, it's obviously a low effort skin, but it doesn't, like, look horrible. Like, it's.
[00:36:21] Speaker E: No, it looks nice.
[00:36:24] Speaker D: Okay.
[00:36:24] Speaker C: That was just on par for the skins at the time.
[00:36:26] Speaker D: Silent night soda, though, is the one where she just has the deadest eyes. Like, she is having nom flashbacks in that splash.
[00:36:36] Speaker C: Right.
[00:36:37] Speaker B: Can we get, like, what level increase.
[00:36:38] Speaker C: A remake of this skin in modern day? Like, to bring it up to modern day standards and give it, like, krampus.
[00:36:46] Speaker D: Overtones, but also view sonos the one where they're like. But what if her boobs were bigger?
[00:36:53] Speaker C: True.
After that, I think, is where we put base Sona.
[00:37:01] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:37:02] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay.
[00:37:05] Speaker D: I have one I would put below it, but, yeah, I just don't like the sweetheart skins, really, in general. So I would put sweetheart Sona.
[00:37:14] Speaker C: I do. And I'll get to why later? Cause up until now, I'm just, like. I'm skipping past these really fast because there's just not a lot to talk about here.
[00:37:24] Speaker D: Yeah, fair.
[00:37:24] Speaker C: They're low quality.
They may have been high effort at the time, but they just don't hold up. Yeah. And, like, artistically, they just aren't. They didn't have enough to work with at the time, and that holds them back from being at the same standard now, for sure. That doesn't persist for very long. Like, only skins produced in 2010 really get that level of forgiveness from me. But, yeah.
[00:37:54] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:37:55] Speaker C: After that, I think, is where I put the original Pentakill sona.
Literally, it's a cool concept on her. It's executed poorly.
[00:38:07] Speaker A: It's executed poorly. It doesn't like. She doesn't feel like a metal musician. Like.
[00:38:12] Speaker C: No.
[00:38:13] Speaker A: The other pentakill skins from that era all feel like this character reimagined as a God of metal.
[00:38:20] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:38:20] Speaker A: Sona feels like. Here's goth Sona with cleavage.
[00:38:25] Speaker C: Yeah, pretty much.
[00:38:27] Speaker B: You just said the same thing twice. I don't understand.
[00:38:31] Speaker D: But, no, it's. It is like, a kind of. In comparison to the other of those pentakill skins. You're right. It's like, the others all feel like metal cover art. She'll feel. She feels like a metal singer.
[00:38:43] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:38:43] Speaker D: Or artist, I should say.
[00:38:46] Speaker C: And I think that's about the cutoff where I'm gonna say the skins just aren't worth really talking about. That's everything below. This is just not good. And there isn't enough going on to really talk about for any meaningful amount of time. Okay, next is where I put sweetheart Sona fair. It's for the time, it was a fairly low effort. Skin, as they often are with the valentine skins, it's samey and repetitive. With the others. It's kind of hard to tell them apart, and there's not really anything unique or interesting going on here. For example, the archers having Cupid's bow. Kind of interesting. Right. But once you've seen the concept, the first one was the sweetheart or the heartseeker ash.
Or actually, no, it was heartseeker Vayne, then ash. But those two at least had particles and, like, were artistically different enough that I didn't really have an issue with it. But by the time you get to Varys, I'm just like, okay, I'm done with this.
[00:39:46] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:39:46] Speaker C: So sweetheart Sona is the first of the, like, decent skins, but it's still pretty low tier.
If you like pink, great.
[00:39:54] Speaker B: Play it.
[00:39:57] Speaker C: And that's it for the legacy vault skins that I'm gonna be talking about, because I'm just not gonna talk about the prestige one.
[00:40:05] Speaker A: The prestige one is just Hatsune Miku. She has a prestige.
[00:40:08] Speaker D: Oh, yeah, I forgot she had a prestige.
So I've never seen this skin in.
[00:40:14] Speaker C: Game that I'm gonna talk about is actually the immortal journey Sona.
[00:40:19] Speaker D: Yep.
[00:40:20] Speaker C: The newest one. This barely outdoes sweetheart, but it has all the same problems.
[00:40:27] Speaker A: Immortal journey Sona is Gukwin Sona, but better.
[00:40:31] Speaker C: Yeah. And, like, honestly, these skins aren't aimed at us, but at the same time, they're just so samey and repetitive.
Please just stop. Please come up with more interesting concepts. If you're gonna try and make money, at least, like, put some goddamn effort into this. There's nothing interesting going on here.
If you asked me, like, okay, what's the, like, inspiration for this skin? All I would tell you is that it's Sona dressing Asian. Not being asian dressing Asian.
[00:41:08] Speaker A: It is a romance of the three Kingdoms cosplay.
[00:41:11] Speaker C: Yes, I know, but that doesn't come across in the skin at all.
[00:41:15] Speaker D: It makes me just think of a lot of, like, it looks like a.
[00:41:18] Speaker A: Romance of the Three Kingdoms cosplay. And that's the problem, is it looks like cosplay.
[00:41:23] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:41:25] Speaker A: Whereas earlier romance of the Three Kingdoms skins feel like, what if this character was in Romance of the three kingdoms?
[00:41:33] Speaker C: Yeah.
The next one on the list for me, as much as I love the skin line and the lore behind it, is star guardian. Yeah.
[00:41:42] Speaker B: I was wondering what's gonna be the next one. The star Guardian Sona looks.
Stargazer looks pretty good to me. Like, yeah, it's not bad, honestly.
[00:41:52] Speaker C: Covered the bad ones.
[00:41:53] Speaker B: Yeah, all. All the. All of the Sonos skins now, from now on, are basically. These are good.
[00:41:58] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:41:59] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:42:00] Speaker B: There's only one exception, maybe, but it's saved by the in game art.
[00:42:04] Speaker A: I have a grievance with one of the remaining ones in game. When we get to it, I'm sure.
[00:42:08] Speaker C: We'Ll get to it.
[00:42:09] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:42:10] Speaker C: So star Guardian Sona.
It doesn't do anything interesting with the concept of a star Guardian. There's nothing new here. Like, there is with some of the other star Guardian skins.
And then it's very monochrome. Like, the metal is very dulled down and desaturated. The green is very bright and is the only thing really being seen. Like, it's just. It's a boring design, which is kind of the opposite of what star Guardian stuff should be. Typically, you at least have two colors to play with. The white, their color, and then whatever color the metal is or their pet or their spell particles. Like, there's enough of a difference to make it interesting. Like, star Guardian misfortune has a lot of yellow in it, for example.
And then. Or star Guardian Jinx is, like, red and purple. You have two colors typically to play with, and Sona just doesn't, and it hurts, and it's because of the spell particles in game, so I get it, but it just makes for a very boring design.
So it's still star guardian skin. It's still pretty freaking decent, but it does suffer both on. They didn't do anything interesting with Sona, and they didn't do anything interesting with the concept of a star guardian.
Anyone have anything else to add on that one?
[00:43:33] Speaker B: I don't know for sure because I don't own the skin.
Her voice lines change for that one. Right? Like, her. Her familiar is the one that talks, isn't it?
[00:43:44] Speaker C: I think so, yeah. Like, that's, like, okay, that. That's at least something interesting.
[00:43:48] Speaker B: That's interesting, yeah. Like, that's. That's the most interesting thing about this skin is that, yeah, this familiar talks for Sona, which is. Which is nice because Sona doesn't talk like both of us.
[00:44:00] Speaker C: Not really remembering 100% for sure. We might be wrong. If that's the case, we're sorry.
[00:44:05] Speaker B: There is that. Like, I also just don't own the skin and have very rarely. It's.
[00:44:11] Speaker C: I only own two, three Sona skins because I don't use silent night ever.
[00:44:16] Speaker B: Star Guardian skins. Star Guardian is oversaturated at this point as well, so it is. It's unfortunate.
[00:44:23] Speaker C: There's ways you can push that theme to still be interesting. This is not how to do it. There's still space to play.
[00:44:32] Speaker B: The corrupted star Guardians is honestly the most interesting thing they've done with the skin line.
[00:44:36] Speaker C: I agree.
[00:44:37] Speaker B: But anyway, so the next one on.
[00:44:41] Speaker C: My list is probably DJ Sona.
[00:44:44] Speaker D: Really?
[00:44:47] Speaker C: Mm hmm.
[00:44:48] Speaker A: I'm inclined to agree, but I want to hear your reasoning.
[00:44:51] Speaker C: My reasoning is the other skins on this list just do things that are more interesting.
I have nothing negative to say about the skin, especially considering how early on it was released and what they did with it, where it affects the music of everyone in the game, and you can change, and your particles will change based on the style of music you're playing. This was a very well done and interesting skin.
[00:45:13] Speaker E: That's cool.
[00:45:16] Speaker A: I agree.
[00:45:17] Speaker C: The issue is it just doesn't do anything interesting with Sona as a character. As a character. This is. Oh, what if Sona was a DJ? That's not an interesting. That's not a compelling story here. And the rest of these have more for me.
[00:45:34] Speaker A: See, I'm fine with what if Sona was a DJ? I love that it has the three different forms and the music and everything. My issue with DJ Sona is it just doesn't look very good in game.
None of the three, like, colors of the music. I just don't feel like it looks very good. I'd much rather look at, like, I don't know any of the remaining ones.
[00:45:58] Speaker C: I. And, like, this is my favorite Sona skin. It is objectively not the best.
[00:46:08] Speaker D: I think crush and I are on the same page here. I disagree.
[00:46:11] Speaker C: That's fair.
[00:46:13] Speaker B: I don't.
[00:46:13] Speaker C: But, like, there's a difference between my favorite and what I consider to be objectively, like, better.
[00:46:19] Speaker B: I don't see how this is not just the best sonoskin, hands down. I don't know why they made any more skins after this one. Like, this just wins all of them. I don't. So you said that there was nothing interesting to be done with Sona. Like, she plays a harpy. Making her a dj with turntables is, like, inspired. Like, that is absolutely the best place to jungler. Yes, I'm aware. The best place to take somebody who has a floating table around with them and makes music. Like, DJ. But it's perfect perfection.
[00:46:54] Speaker C: Already did that with arcade Sona, so just felt like that concept done again. Like, it wasn't DJ turntables, but it was a modern day electronic instrument.
[00:47:08] Speaker B: Arcade son is playing with is. Has an arcade stick. Like, she's not. She's not djing.
[00:47:15] Speaker C: And a keyboard in the middle, I.
[00:47:17] Speaker B: Think that's a keyboard. I thought it was a mixer, but it's a keyboard. You're right. Yeah, it's a keyboard.
[00:47:22] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:47:22] Speaker B: So that's.
That's. That's.
[00:47:24] Speaker C: That's not like it had been done already.
[00:47:27] Speaker B: That's, like, very close to just her original boy.
[00:47:31] Speaker D: Like, for me, Arcade and DJ are top two, but I'm looking at Odyssey's in game model, and I'm like, DJ is above us.
[00:47:40] Speaker C: Fair enough. We're allowed to disagree.
It's not just me monologuing.
[00:47:44] Speaker B: And then you have, like, okay, so if DJ Sona was just the base skin, I think it would still be the best Sona skin that she has, because the effects for it stand out from all the other Sonos skins. But then.
Then you have that she, that she has three forms and each three, each of the forms is visually distinct from the other two. They have different.
I don't think they have different animations.
Not directly. They do. Okay. I couldn't, I couldn't tell if, like, Sona herself has the particles.
[00:48:19] Speaker D: The particles are different.
[00:48:20] Speaker B: Yeah, but the particles are all different.
[00:48:22] Speaker C: And no, she is also different. If you watch her hand, for example, on, like, the concussive one, it's very abrupt, whereas on the slow one, the soft one, I love, it feels like a conductor.
[00:48:41] Speaker B: Yeah.
I love that they realize this DJ concept in three different forms and that you can move between them pretty seamlessly. And it's, it's definitely still the same character. It's cohesive and yet it is visually distinct. And it's like, that's a masterpiece. I don't think any other skin. The only one that comes close is elementalist Lux.
[00:49:02] Speaker A: So I guess you did have a hot take on DJ Sona because you put it below four of her skins.
[00:49:08] Speaker B: Yeah, no, apparently.
[00:49:12] Speaker C: I thought, like some, I thought, I thought a hot take would be like, trashy on it.
[00:49:16] Speaker A: I mean, but I'd put it above one of the ones you have remaining still. And I don't like DJ Sona.
[00:49:22] Speaker C: Oh, my God.
[00:49:23] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:49:23] Speaker B: To be fair, DJ Sona is the first skin that I actually bought on release. Like, that skin is amazing.
End of story.
[00:49:31] Speaker C: Foxfire re.
[00:49:32] Speaker A: Oh, God.
[00:49:33] Speaker B: I didn't buy that one on release, but I do have that one that.
[00:49:35] Speaker C: Was, I did buy that one on release.
[00:49:37] Speaker D: Just listeners, if you don't know, DJ Sona is an ultimate skin. So it's the like, what, like $30 skin. Third, spirit guard udir and pulse fire.
[00:49:46] Speaker B: Israel new pulse rise rules. The first I forgot about spirit guard Udyr, I think it was.
[00:49:52] Speaker D: Yep, it was before.
[00:49:53] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:49:54] Speaker B: I always forget about spirit guard.
[00:49:55] Speaker D: Ooh, dear.
[00:49:56] Speaker B: Because I just definitely not. Ooh, deer is the best new dear skin. I don't, I'm taking no arguments at this time.
[00:50:02] Speaker C: Agree. I don't think I have.
[00:50:06] Speaker A: I will say definitely not. Udyr did get downgraded with his rework.
[00:50:10] Speaker C: Sure.
[00:50:10] Speaker D: Yes, it did. It did.
[00:50:13] Speaker B: Anyway, I didn't.
[00:50:16] Speaker C: You. I don't know how you have arcade soda above DJ, so.
[00:50:19] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:50:20] Speaker A: No, I agree with her on that.
[00:50:22] Speaker B: Go ahead. I'm done.
[00:50:23] Speaker E: I like the, I like arcade as well.
[00:50:25] Speaker B: I do like the arcade skin line is one of my favorite skin lines. DJ, someone is better. But anyway.
[00:50:36] Speaker D: Next would better.
[00:50:37] Speaker B: And I really don't know how you have it above the set. Of cassettes. Second panna's kill skin, but continue. I'm done.
I'm done.
[00:50:45] Speaker C: So the next one is the second Panakil skin.
[00:50:49] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:50:51] Speaker C: No, it's that and a tie with the Psyops sonoskin. I don't care which one's placed higher or lower. They are the same in quality to me, and they do the same things and do them well for the same reasons. They take the character, and especially with the tie in of other skin lines, such as the original pentakill skins, to this, the evolution from the first to the second, they do something interesting with, or try to at least with each of the characters. And they definitely reimagine Sona in a better light this time. She's got, like, an organ that she's playing on. If you see the pipes underneath, it's gorgeous. I wish they had changed the sound part, the sound effects for it. I understand why they didn't, but, like, I wish they'd made it deeper. It just. It feels more interesting to me than the harp, and I think similar reasons to why crush is so enamored by the DJ Sona skin is. It just feels like a really interesting place to take this.
[00:51:53] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:51:56] Speaker C: But it's also an evolution from one skin to the other, which is why I put it above the DJ Sona skin psyops, for similar reasons. Feels interesting. She feels like the only character fighting with sound in the Psyops universe, and having this be kind of unique to her and look visually unique to her.
[00:52:19] Speaker D: I like psyops a lot. I love her, like, setup in psyops.
[00:52:24] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:52:24] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. Like, this is.
This, to me, is amazing. And just a far more interesting way to take Sona than DJ Sona or, I think, even the Pentas. I think I put this above the pentakill skin because it's just this, to me, is taking her fighting with sound and actually making it look like fighting with sound as opposed to the typical. Oh, I play music and then magic blasts out. This is her actually fighting with the sound waves themselves. And I fucking love this.
[00:53:00] Speaker B: So unless I'm mistaken. So Psyop Sona is my second favorite. Sona skin.
Psyop sona, unless I'm mistaken, she's not using sound. She's just using psychic telekinesis energy type stuff. That's why it's so different looking.
[00:53:14] Speaker C: Probably correct.
[00:53:15] Speaker B: But it looks good. Like, it feels and looks good and.
[00:53:18] Speaker C: It feels fighting with sound, which is very Sona, right?
[00:53:21] Speaker B: Yeah. Like, it is, as I said, like, after. As they made DJ Sona. Why do they make any other sonos skins? Psyop Sona. This is a different concept. I actually like it. That's why my second favorite sona skin. So I actually like Psyop's one. And it is also very visually distinct as well with the setup she has behind her.
[00:53:41] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:53:41] Speaker B: So, yeah, I agree.
[00:53:43] Speaker C: It's good.
[00:53:43] Speaker B: I like it.
[00:53:44] Speaker A: So, okay, what's your runner up for best skin?
[00:53:48] Speaker C: My runner up is Odyssey Sona.
[00:53:51] Speaker A: Okay, why?
Cause I have thoughts on this skin.
[00:53:59] Speaker C: My reasoning is, I like bringing Sona into a role of almost being, like, an oracle of Delphi. She has the information for you, but you need to figure out a way to actually get it from her. Being mute, she doesn't really have, so that kind of takes the place of, say, a riddle. Is figuring out a way to understand the information that she is trying to purvey. This, to me, is a very unique concept of a mute prophet, and I fucking love it.
In game model may not look quite as nice, which is why it doesn't get the top spot. But this, to me, is the only good execution of the Odyssey skins.
There's your hot take.
[00:54:40] Speaker A: Oh, boy.
[00:54:41] Speaker C: That is. I can already.
[00:54:42] Speaker D: That's a hot take.
[00:54:43] Speaker A: No, I'm sorry.
[00:54:44] Speaker C: Is the only good odyssey skin.
[00:54:46] Speaker A: No Odyssey Kane exists. You are objectively wrong, so I disagree.
[00:54:51] Speaker B: So Odyssey Cane.
[00:54:53] Speaker E: The only reason it's a odyssey can.
[00:54:55] Speaker B: The only reason it's a good skin is because it's the best cane skin. Unfortunately. That bar is fucking low as hell.
[00:55:01] Speaker A: That bar is low as hell. Odyssey cane looks great. I don't care.
I have words about Odyssey soda, and I like the concept of Odyssey soda. Just off the splash. It's one of my favorite splashes she has.
[00:55:16] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:55:17] Speaker D: I love this. The splash is amazing.
[00:55:19] Speaker A: I love that. It's clearly, like, how do we translate, like, diva Plava Laguna from the fifth element into Sona is kind of what the splash is.
[00:55:28] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I can see it.
[00:55:31] Speaker A: Here's my issue with Odyssey Sona, and it's the reason I hate this skin. It would be near the bottom of my list visually in game, because of the way the dress flows and everything.
She looks like twitch at a glance.
I'm not even kidding. I hate this skin so much because it. Visually. I think it's a twitch skin every time until I go, wait, no, that's soda.
[00:55:55] Speaker D: Oh, yeah. With the tails on it.
[00:55:57] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.
[00:55:58] Speaker D: I see it.
[00:55:59] Speaker A: That's my objection to odyssey sonic.
[00:56:00] Speaker C: I understand that.
[00:56:02] Speaker A: Other than that, it's a fine skin.
[00:56:04] Speaker E: I genuinely didn't see that until you actually mentioned it. Like, damn, now I'm never gonna be able to unsee it.
[00:56:11] Speaker A: My problem is, because of the way the dress flows and everything, Sona doesn't look like there's a person there. It looks like it's a creature there. Which is why my brain then translates it to, oh, that must be twitch. Cause I see the twitch's crossbow is this big fucking bow in front of him on most of his skins. That's what her like, table looks like on this skin. It's a triangle. It looks like a crossbow.
[00:56:34] Speaker D: They also gave her two sets of wow. Shoulder pads. One on her, one floating above her.
[00:56:40] Speaker A: True, but I don't have a problem with that.
[00:56:43] Speaker B: They figured out how to make more wow. Give someone more wow shoulder pads. Garen is jealous.
[00:56:51] Speaker A: Okay, that was my rant. I think the skin is fine otherwise, but it has readability issues that annoy the shit out of me.
[00:56:57] Speaker C: That's fair.
And taking the top spot is arcade sona.
I can see crush already. Just, like, glaring at me.
[00:57:08] Speaker B: Like, again. I really love the arcade skin line. I really do love it.
[00:57:12] Speaker C: I do too. Here's the first one.
And also the most unique looking of them.
[00:57:19] Speaker B: It is.
It is just not. I do like the stars on the end of her trails on this skin.
And I like the skin.
[00:57:28] Speaker C: I think the particle effects are creative and entirely novel for what they were doing at the time. And also, this skin came out so early and was just so high quality for when it came out.
[00:57:40] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:57:40] Speaker C: And I'm just.
I have nothing bad to say about this skin.
[00:57:44] Speaker B: Making her ult a DDR track is great. I love it.
[00:57:47] Speaker A: Yeah, perfect.
[00:57:49] Speaker B: No notes. I just, like, if I compare it to psyops or DJ, it just. It can't. It can't stand with those. So it's my third favorite skin also.
[00:57:59] Speaker A: And maybe this is just me showing my hand a bit for some reason. She has a much smaller chest, but it's really prominent in this skin.
I don't know why. That's the choice they made, but I'm here for it.
[00:58:12] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:58:13] Speaker D: Her chest size fluctuates a lot in her skin. Really does.
[00:58:17] Speaker C: It's very strange.
[00:58:18] Speaker B: I think Sona is the one that fluctuates the. The most of all her skins. I think.
[00:58:22] Speaker A: I think so.
[00:58:23] Speaker B: Think she is. I think Miss Fortune is the runner up for that title.
[00:58:27] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:58:28] Speaker B: A fluctuating cup size.
[00:58:30] Speaker D: Right now. I thought arcade Hecarim was the first skin. I forgot Sona was first. Okay. Or was the first arcade skin, the.
[00:58:37] Speaker A: Original run of arcade skins got a chroma added years later.
[00:58:42] Speaker B: Yeah, I could have set of arcade.
[00:58:45] Speaker D: Sona was 2012, Hecarim was 2013.
[00:58:48] Speaker C: I think she, she came out alone.
[00:58:51] Speaker A: Yep, yep.
[00:58:53] Speaker C: And then for the p's also related to Sona, her animations have been lacking for years. What would you change slash add for her visual update? I think I kind of already said it. Make her abilities, her spells feel like sound as opposed to random magic blast number 74 in this game.
[00:59:14] Speaker B: Which is another reason why I love the DJ Sona, because her effects around her, when she's got the charge up, they look so much like sound waves. They are, they are just sound waves.
[00:59:25] Speaker C: They can. Yeah.
[00:59:27] Speaker B: It's so good.
[00:59:29] Speaker D: I know how you update her. You delete seraphine and give Sona seraphines kit.
[00:59:34] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. Honestly.
[00:59:38] Speaker B: Oh my God.
[00:59:39] Speaker C: But no, as far as visual updates, that's the biggest change I would bring in and I think it would help a lot.
Also, I think there should definitely be a version of arcade Sona who has like for the voice lines instead of that just have like Animal Crossing talk and then like a text bubble.
[01:00:02] Speaker A: Yes. But also she needs a chroma where instead of DDR arrows on her ultimate, it's beat saber boxes.
[01:00:08] Speaker C: Hell yes. Wait, no, a champion already has, uh, Lux. Lux? Yeah. Dark cosmic Lux has the beat saber dance.
[01:00:18] Speaker E: Dance, right? Yeah.
[01:00:20] Speaker A: Does she?
[01:00:21] Speaker E: Yeah, she does.
[01:00:22] Speaker A: I'm gonna have to look this skin up.
[01:00:23] Speaker C: If I get Lux tonight, I'll. If I get Lux tonight, I'll play that skin.
[01:00:27] Speaker B: Oh, and that's the other reason why DJ Sona is the best skin, because she does Carmel dancing.
[01:00:31] Speaker A: True.
[01:00:32] Speaker C: Hell yeah.
[01:00:35] Speaker D: But I think we all know who the next arcade.
I think we all know who the next arcade skin should be though, right?
[01:00:43] Speaker E: I do.
[01:00:44] Speaker D: It needs to be Lucian. So you could play arcade Lucian in the top lane.
[01:00:49] Speaker A: Perfect.
[01:00:50] Speaker C: I was so curious, like I was so confused where you were going with that, but that was good.
[01:00:54] Speaker B: I have unfortunate news for you. The Demacia vice skin line is also the same universe as arcade.
[01:01:02] Speaker C: Ah.
[01:01:04] Speaker D: Why?
[01:01:05] Speaker B: I have no idea.
[01:01:07] Speaker A: Because Hotline Miami, that's literally why.
[01:01:10] Speaker E: Yes.
[01:01:11] Speaker C: All right.
[01:01:11] Speaker D: Yes.
[01:01:13] Speaker A: With that, this has been episode 430 of the Forwards podcast listeners. We have one question in the queue. Send us questions to theforwordspodcastmail.com so we can answer them on the show. Because we're too stupid to fill an hour without your questions.
[01:01:28] Speaker C: Also, more questions like that please. That was a blast.
[01:01:32] Speaker A: Yes.
Alright. With that, I've been Jack Soman for crush you for slushy otter, for free shooter, and for witch at Black Mass. Have a great night.
[01:01:47] Speaker D: I stole crushes by thanks for listening.
[01:01:50] Speaker E: To the four Wards podcast, part of the Trinity Force network. If you'd like to leave questions or feedback for the crew, send us an email at four wardstrinityforcepodcast.com dot. You can also find us on Twitter for awards podcast with the number four. Finally, you can also find us at four awards dot trinityforcepodcast.com.
[01:02:10] Speaker B: If youd like to check out all.
[01:02:11] Speaker E: The other great podcasts that are part of the network, head on over to trinityforcenetwork.com. Thanks for listening and well be back next time with more ways to help you move forward in league.
