[00:00:04] Speaker A: Welcome to the four Wards podcast.
[00:00:07] Speaker B: Hey, what's up? It's Eric Brah, voice of Draven, Jerks, and Velcaz. And you're listening to the Forwards podcast, here to help you move forward and lead.
Hello, and welcome to episode 437 of the four Wards podcast. I'm your host, as usual. I'm Jax Homan, and I've got with me two other wards to help you move forward in League of Legends. Crushy's here.
[00:00:48] Speaker A: Yay.
[00:00:48] Speaker C: I'm still here for now.
[00:00:51] Speaker B: And we've also got free shooter.
[00:00:53] Speaker A: Hello. I've been brought out of the land of Shadow. That is the elden ring DLC to record a podcast.
[00:01:04] Speaker B: We dragged you out of the Erdtree.
[00:01:06] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:01:06] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:01:08] Speaker B: I don't even fucking play that game, and I know that that's how pervasive Elden Ring has been in the culture of the discord lately.
[00:01:15] Speaker A: Well, and this would be out of the Shadow tree, except they spelled it the old english way, so everyone's calling it the Skidoo tree.
[00:01:22] Speaker B: Of course they are. Alright, guys, we are the Forwards podcast. This is not an Elden Ring podcast. Believe it or not.
[00:01:28] Speaker A: Lame.
[00:01:29] Speaker B: We're here to help you move forward in League of Legends, and we do stream on Twitch. I can be found at Twitch TV. Jackson. I'm currently plat two.
Crush can be found at Twitch TV. Crush, you free shooter can be found at Twitch TV. Free. Eshooter. That's right. There are three e's in free.
And we have some shoutouts. Shoutout to Codex Ninja and Pillow pet for supporting us at the shoutout tier on our Patreon. Thank you so much, you guys.
And speaking of our Patreon, if you want to support the podcast, head on over to patreon.com. the Forwardspodcast $1 a month just tells you that you love us. Tells us that you love us. I'm gonna fuck that up every single week, aren't I?
Oh, well, whatever. It's funny. $5 a month will get you an exclusive feed of all of our prep of every episode. Listen to us bullshit. Listen to us argue about the patch, whatever it is that we do before the podcast actually begins.
[00:02:28] Speaker A: We talked about the summer sale today.
[00:02:31] Speaker B: Yeah, we did. And if you want to be shouted out like Codex Ninja and pillow Pat, dollar ten a month gets you into the shoutout tier.
Speaking of listeners, do you want to help guide new players to move forward in League of Legends? The Forwards podcast is hosting auditions. You may have noticed we're kind of running a skeleton crew nowadays. So, uh, this is your opportunity. If you want to join the show, you can record yourself giving a trinket tip. We'll have an example of a trinket tip later in the episode.
Send your recorded trinket tip to the
[email protected].
we use audacity, which I'm going to link in the episode description, but audacityteam.org to down, that's where you download it. It's free open source software. We use that to record and edit the show. That is what I'd recommend. Use the best microphone you got because we do not make enough on our patreon to support sending equipment to podcasters and to pay for hosting. Thankfully we are making enough for hosting now, so we do typically record, FYI, at about 06:00 p.m. pacific 09:00 p.m. eastern. What day we record will be flexible and when we get people selected we will work out what the best day is for everyone involved.
But it will likely be Wednesday, Thursday or Sunday because most of us have obligations on the other days.
And listeners, even if it's not an audition to be on the show, we need more questions. We are going to run out this this week, listeners, only one of you sent in a question this week. Send your questions to theforwardspodcastmail.com so we can answer them on the show. I hope to see a lot of auditions and questions next week, listeners.
[00:04:19] Speaker A: Yeah, all right.
[00:04:21] Speaker B: Yeah.
So guys, it's a patch week and up top, batch 1413 is going to be a three week patch riot. Summer break is coming up for the 4 July in the US, so they take an extra week off. This patch is going to run for three weeks instead of two.
So that's the heads up.
That being said, there's a lot of changes in this patch and some of them are big, some of them are just baffling. So we're going to cover them and I'm gonna kick things off with one that I think looks big but really, really isn't.
Brand got some nerfs. Brand has been dominant.
Riot seems to think that he is too strong in mid and bot lane farming, but about right for support in jungle. So what they have done is they have reduced the mana restoration on his passive. By the way, if you last hit something while it is on fire with Bran's passive, you get mana back.
So they've nerfed it back to what it used to be. It's just a revert of a buff. They gave him a while back, it now gives 20 to 40 based on your level instead of 30 to 50 per target you last hit.
They have also reduced the base damage on e. When you rank it up, it now scales up to 160 instead of scaling up to 180 for the base damage.
As someone who plays a lot of brand, I don't think these changes do much. The main thing it accomplishes is you can't just rush liandries and ignore the mana item. You do actually need to go the black fire torch first.
That's it.
[00:06:05] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:07] Speaker B: This mana restore still scales up to refunding the entire spell when you w the Caster minions very quickly.
And it still is a hilariously strong counter against minion champions like Malzahar, where you just literally can spam for free because their minions restore your mana.
[00:06:27] Speaker C: Yep.
[00:06:29] Speaker B: That was the funniest realization for me, was when I played a brand into Malzahar and realized that w ing his minion line would generate mana for me.
[00:06:39] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:06:40] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:41] Speaker B: Wait, why is this a thing? Why is my w like, mana positive? Just because he summoned his voidlings?
Which to be fair, I think is technically not true until late game now. But it's close.
The fact that it's close is still stupid.
[00:06:59] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:06:59] Speaker B: So, yeah, Bran got nerfed. I don't think it does anything. I'm still playing him mid.
[00:07:03] Speaker C: Yeah, I don't think it does anything either. Nah, not in the jungle at least.
[00:07:07] Speaker B: Oh, it. It intentionally does nothing to jungler support. Who we're not maxing ian to last anyway and who don't use the mana restore passive nearly as well.
[00:07:19] Speaker C: Right? Cause the jungle doesn't care.
[00:07:21] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:07:22] Speaker B: Yeah. Jungle item gives you effectively infinite mana anyway. Brand can't cast fast enough to consume the mana the jungle item gives you.
Not unless you build a weird, like 150 ability haste build or something. In which case, you're just trolling anyway.
[00:07:38] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:07:39] Speaker B: Okay, who wants to go next?
[00:07:42] Speaker C: Speaking of jungle, I want to talk about graves.
[00:07:45] Speaker B: Oh, yes.
[00:07:48] Speaker C: So a few patches back, it says 1322. He got a nerf to his e quick draw.
It gives bonus armor for every time he stacks it up.
I believe he stacks it by autoing while the buff is on.
[00:08:06] Speaker B: I believe it is. Every dash he does gives him a stack, and any auto he does retains the stacks, refreshes the duration.
[00:08:14] Speaker C: Yeah, I definitely know that it refreshes the duration.
It stacks faster than just dashes, I think. But let me double check. But either way, they nerfed how much armor it would give him per stack, and the per stack they dropped it by two at all ranks. It was.
It was four to 16. And then they dropped it by two at all ranks. They've reverted that entirely. It's back to four to 16 again.
The reason why this is a problem is that his maximum stacks for this is eight.
[00:08:50] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:08:51] Speaker C: And you're right, it stacks on every dash. And twice if you dash towards a.
[00:08:56] Speaker B: Champion, that's the key, is he gets double stacks if he dashes towards a champion. And the cooldown is reduced for every. With everything you shoot.
[00:09:06] Speaker C: So I do not play graves jungle because I often will drop his stacks. Good. Graves junglers can clear the jungle without dropping the stacks.
[00:09:16] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:09:17] Speaker C: And because you can just crash in.
[00:09:18] Speaker B: The middle of crossing from one quadrant to the other, you can technically maintain the stacks, the entire six camp clear.
[00:09:24] Speaker C: Yep. I can do it normally. I'll drop it occasionally. So I can't really play grave jungle, but it's fine. Anyway, the thing about this is that it gives him an extra 16 armor at level three.
Actually, it might just be level two because I think it's his second ability. There's no reason to take smoke.
[00:09:42] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a second max.
[00:09:46] Speaker C: Yeah. That's a lot of armor. And it basically means he wins every duel against another ad champion. Because now it's instead of 16, it's 32. 32 armor is more than a cloth armor, isn't it?
[00:09:58] Speaker B: It's double a cloth. Armored. Cloth armor is only 15.
[00:10:01] Speaker C: Yeah. I was like, wait, no, that's just more than.
[00:10:03] Speaker B: They literally gave him an extra cloth armor back.
[00:10:06] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:10:07] Speaker B: For dueling enemy junglers, basically, yeah.
[00:10:09] Speaker C: And that's why this is ridiculous. Is like, yeah, there's a reason they nerfed him this way. They buffed him back. He's going to crowd out a lot of the 80 junglers. And this is why Graves seems like so tanky, even though he's only built lethality items. It's. This is why.
Because when it's at max rank. Max rank.
[00:10:31] Speaker B: Max 16 armor times eight.
[00:10:35] Speaker C: Yeah, it's 120 armor.
[00:10:38] Speaker B: Eight armor. It's stupid.
[00:10:41] Speaker C: That's why he's so tanky. Despite having only lethality items. That's why he only builds lethality items and is somehow impossible to kill. The only caveat, the only shining beacon of hope in this is that currently, ap junglers are doing quite well. Lilia, Diana, Karthus.
They're doing quite well. Maybe they'll be able to kill Graves and keep him from dominating the jungle, but he's definitely gonna be dominating the ad junglers. I'm pretty sure at this point.
[00:11:08] Speaker B: Yeah. I'm really unhappy about this change. Just specifically, I'm unhappy about the rank one amount of armor it gives. I really wish this had been the same amount at rank one. Scaling up to the higher amount by the time you max it. I don't mind them buffing the higher tiers of it, but rank one is fucking stupid.
[00:11:29] Speaker C: I just like the note, the explanation for it. Graves. His build damage amount and clear speed are reasonable, but he could use some extra durability.
[00:11:37] Speaker B: And I'm like, no, none of that is true. His clear speed is stupid. His damage is stupid and he's way too durable. Fuck this champion.
[00:11:45] Speaker C: His clear speed is. Okay. There's better clear speed, but he is a good, good clearer.
I would say he's the top half.
[00:11:52] Speaker B: He's a tier.
[00:11:54] Speaker C: Yeah.
Which is top half.
[00:11:57] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:11:58] Speaker C: Generally speaking.
Yeah. So, like it.
My problem is that you're not supposed to be able to do all of those things.
[00:12:07] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:12:07] Speaker C: One of those things is supposed to not be true.
Like, for example, Warwick, he does a pretty good amount of damage, actually. And he's really tough and tanky, but his clear speed is not good. And that's on. That's on purpose.
[00:12:21] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:12:22] Speaker C: So it's like, wait, why does. Why does Graves get to be lee sin for a while? I don't understand.
[00:12:27] Speaker B: I don't fucking know. I think they're just trying to put him back in pro because he's good for pro play.
[00:12:35] Speaker C: I'm trying to remember if Graves is ever, like, really present in pro.
[00:12:38] Speaker B: It's a couple times.
[00:12:40] Speaker A: Yeah. There was a little bit where, like, korean junglers were playing him all the time.
[00:12:46] Speaker C: That might explain it, because I'm like, yeah, I don't.
[00:12:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:12:53] Speaker C: In na, at least. I can't think of anyone who plays graves jungle.
[00:12:56] Speaker A: Yeah, it was a couple years ago.
Yeah, he kind of has the niddily problem in pro play. Wherever. You gotta be really fucking good on the champion to justify picking it, because it doesn't.
[00:13:10] Speaker C: Most pros would just pick lisa instead of graves.
[00:13:13] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:13:13] Speaker C: In the same situation.
But anyway, I'm pissed at Graves buff. This is gonna be annoying.
[00:13:20] Speaker B: If he was more popular, I would switch my perma band to him, but he's not popular enough yet.
[00:13:24] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:13:26] Speaker B: I hate that yet is the word that I have to use there.
All right, free. You've got a bunch of marksmen on your list, so pick one.
[00:13:34] Speaker A: I'll do the biggest change, which is probably the varus one. Um.
I'll be honest. I've read this paragraph three paragraphs of explanations they gave three times, and I'm still not entirely sure what their goal is or if this actually accomplished. Their goal of if they're trying to nerf lethality Varus or buff it or. I don't know. But regardless.
Go ahead, Jess.
[00:13:58] Speaker B: All right.
They're trying to buff on hit varus is what they're doing here, because lethality is his dominant build.
[00:14:05] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:14:07] Speaker B: And I do think they accomplished that. Go ahead and explain how they did it.
[00:14:11] Speaker A: Yeah, so, I mean, he got minor base stat nerfs, lost three base ad and half a percent of attack speed growth.
The big change is they reworked his passive. So Varus's current passive. It's not the stacks, that's his w. Passive. Varus's actual passive is when he kills a minion or a champion, he would get bonus attack speed, and that would scale up both based on how much bonus attack speed he already have and with your, like, ultimate level rank. So 611 16.
[00:14:48] Speaker B: I'm gonna put it in path of exile terms briefly. It is a more attack speed. It's basically a multiplier on whatever other attack speed you have, which is weird. And one of the only sources of that I think exists. I think jinxes get excited is the only other one I know of.
[00:15:04] Speaker A: Yeah.
So instead, it now gives the normal non more part of the attack speed. So before it was 1015, 20% on minion kill and then 40% on champion, those two flat like increases stay, but it also gives scaling with your attack speed ad and AP for the duration.
So that way, once you're, like, capped out on attack speed and attack speed Varus, you get a little bit more from procing your passive. Also, um, your attack speed cap can be bypassed by the amount of extra attack speed it gives when you proc his passive. So it's not like it was before on attack speed varus, where I already have 2.5 attack speed, now my passive does nothing. It's you can actually a get bonus ad and ap, so your spells land a little bit harder and you actually overcap the attack speed.
[00:16:15] Speaker B: Yep. And to be clear, it says like, pressure muted attack speed 80 and ap.
I think that means, like, if you have 100% increased attack speed, you get ten ad and ten ap.
I believe so, but I'm not sure the way they've worded it is unclear.
[00:16:33] Speaker C: That appears correct. The, the attack speed cap is bypassed when you do a champion takedown specifically as well.
[00:16:40] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:16:40] Speaker A: Ah, yes. Thank you.
[00:16:42] Speaker B: Minion takedowns will not bypass it. Only the champion ones, which is fine.
[00:16:47] Speaker C: Similar to Jake's. Get excited. It's fine.
[00:16:49] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:16:51] Speaker A: Now, they also buffed his w very slightly with their reasoning being lethality users are maxing it second, even though they shouldn't be. But we're gonna buff it because they are, which is weird.
So, yeah, it's.
[00:17:10] Speaker B: It's. I don't know that I'd really call this a buff. Go ahead and explain what they did, and I'll explain why.
[00:17:15] Speaker A: I mean. Yeah, so the damage, like, the on hit damage at max rank is now.
It was 31. It's now 35.
The missing health damage, it used to increase at level thresholds. So this is when you activate the w. That percent missing health. It used to be a level threshold. Now it actually scales with the ability rank you get. Instead of a 12% ability cooldown per blight pop, it's a 13% cooldown for blight.
[00:17:52] Speaker B: It's a nothing team.
[00:17:53] Speaker A: Yeah. And also they made the queue lock out a little bit longer. So you can't insta WQ to just one tap execute someone. You now have to wait almost a full second.
[00:18:04] Speaker B: Yeah. So here's why I think that this is pretty much a non change, because if you were maxing the second anyway, you were maxing it at level 13 and getting 14% at level 13.
Now you're maxing it at level 13 and getting 14% at level 13.
It is a four damage buff on hit for on hit varus.
And where I think it's a bigger change is it means that if lethality barrios is maxing e, you lose out on a lot of missing health damage. So you now actually have two max this second.
[00:18:48] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:18:48] Speaker A: Okay. I didn't think of it that way. That makes sense.
[00:18:51] Speaker B: That's why I think it's actually a nerf for lethality Varus. And again, trying to push you into playing attack speed on hit varus.
[00:18:57] Speaker A: No. Yep, that does make sense. Think of it that way.
[00:19:03] Speaker B: So, yeah, I think unhit Varys is happy with these changes. I think AP Varus is happy with these changes. It's just lethality is sad.
[00:19:14] Speaker A: And I don't even think lethality is that sad, honestly.
[00:19:18] Speaker B: No. Mildly at best. It's pretty power neutral.
[00:19:22] Speaker A: Yeah.
And they talked about he's the highest presence ADC. I don't think this changes that.
[00:19:34] Speaker C: It does not.
[00:19:36] Speaker B: I think it shifts pro to playing him when they would play an on hit instead of when they would play a lethality.
I think lethality Varys disappears from pro with these changes.
[00:19:47] Speaker C: Well, here's the other thing though, if you're a. If you're not maxing the w second, then suddenly you're missing a lot of them. Missing health damage.
[00:19:59] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:19:59] Speaker C: Does on hit Max w second.
[00:20:02] Speaker B: Yes, it does. It's the on hit damage. Like, it's literally just your on hit damage scaling.
[00:20:08] Speaker C: Right. Okay, so I see no changes.
[00:20:12] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. For on hit, these changes are a net buff mostly, but a mild one.
[00:20:21] Speaker C: Okay, I see it.
[00:20:23] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:20:25] Speaker B: Listeners, there are a lot of notes about these varus changes that basically should be summed up as on hit, Varus is slightly better. Lethality Varus is slightly worse.
And you have to max w second crush. You talked about graves. I'm gonna throw it back over to you cause I don't want to talk about another thing yet.
[00:20:50] Speaker C: More jungler changes Taliyah. They're nerfing Taliyah. And I think this is one of the biggest changes in the patch. Like, I've picked good ones. I think like the graves and Taliyah changes.
Graves is gonna be back in the jungle and Taliyah's, I don't think she's out of the jungle entirely. So her q threaded volley used to do bonus monster. It does bonus monster damage. It used to do 25 and plus 5% of your ap to the monsters. Now it does ten.
No Ap scaling on it. Just ten.
[00:21:31] Speaker B: Yup. So you still get all your AP scaling from the regular value. This is just the bonus on monster damage.
[00:21:37] Speaker C: Right.
Her clear speed is very fast in the first 1st clear, but I mean, this is going to drop it like a rock. Like this is.
No pun intended. Talia, that's massive. I think to me, like losing 15 damage every time you cast Q on the first clear.
Yeah, that's, that's a lot.
Cause you, you, you hit that ability a lot.
[00:22:13] Speaker B: And I checked that is per rock and it was not affected by the damage modifier for subsequent hits.
[00:22:20] Speaker C: Oh, geez.
[00:22:21] Speaker B: It's so much worse than we realized during the pre show.
[00:22:25] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a lot.
[00:22:27] Speaker B: That's a lot. She just lost 75 damage to monsters per cast at rank one.
[00:22:35] Speaker C: That's, that's two whole autos when you play jungle. And like your clear has changed per camp to two more autos per camp.
[00:22:49] Speaker B: Yup.
[00:22:50] Speaker C: That's a huge nerve to your clear speed. And the fact that it doesn't have scaling anymore on the AP, that's even worse.
[00:22:58] Speaker B: Like, that's so much worse than we realized during the pre show. That's actually just brutal.
[00:23:05] Speaker C: Yeah, that's, that's not great. Um, does it take Tillia out of the jungle entirely? I don't think so because she still brings pretty strong cc, honestly, from the jungle role.
But that hurts. Um, you might be able to actually just, like, invade her jungle early because she's her clear might be that bad. I'll have to double check and then check in in a bit later after the people have time to look at the patch. But that's. That's so much. That's losing so much damage off of your cues.
[00:23:37] Speaker B: It's so brutal.
We thought beforehand we were like, oh, this is probably a light tap. Maybe it knocks her down to a tier. No, I think this actually knocks her down to b tier once we understood the gravity of the changes.
[00:23:48] Speaker A: From what I'm seeing, her win rate went down two and a half percent.
[00:23:53] Speaker B: Yeah, she dropped from 51.7% to 48.9% on op GG.
She is now the 46th highest win rate jungler on OPG.
[00:24:07] Speaker C: Wow. She dropped 33 places. Yikes. Yeah, that's a tumble.
[00:24:14] Speaker B: Alright, let's talk about more things getting absolutely fucking obliterated from orbitz.
Riot seems to think that we're getting a lot more dark harvest stacks than we are in a game because they have changed both dark harvest and electrocute. Electrocute gained damage at low levels and lost a little bit at high levels.
It's whatever. You weren't really relying on electrocute in the late game for your burst damage anyway. The early damage is nice, but Dark Harvest used to give 20 to 80 damage per proc plus five damage per soul. Now it gives 20 damage plus nine per soul, meaning you need like 15 souls just to break even with the old dark harvest damage.
And you need 20 souls to break even with electrocute.
I don't know about you guys, but most of my summoners Rift games where I've taken Dark Harvest 15 to 20 souls is what I'm reaching when the game ends.
[00:25:20] Speaker A: This is a buff for iron and that's it.
[00:25:24] Speaker B: This is a buff for iron and it is a buff for Airam, frankly, because Aram's scaling got bumped from two damage per soul to four. And aram, you do get a lot more souls.
But yeah, Dark Harvest got nuked from orbit for summoner's Rift. As far as I'm concerned, this is unplayable levels of bad. Now for most games.
Like, I'm not exaggerating when I see it, say, like 15 to 20 stacks of dark harvest is where I'm ending after, like 35 minutes of gameplay when the Nexus explodes. Yeah, and that's a good game. If I'm not having a good game, it's not that high.
[00:26:00] Speaker C: When we were looking at this in pre show, I was like, well, maybe it's not that bad. Like, yeah, sure, 15 is. 15 is a lot. Like, no joke, but like, it does scale up even further after you get it to 15, so maybe it'll be fine. And then I saw electrocutes numbers. I'm like, wow, nevermind.
[00:26:17] Speaker B: You quite literally need 20 souls just to break even with electrocute. If you've gotten 20 souls and the game isn't over yet, you're doing something wrong. And you would have four kills with electrocute.
[00:26:32] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:26:33] Speaker B: So just take electrocute. If you. If you're capable of proccing it at all. If you're not, take something like comet instead.
[00:26:42] Speaker C: It's so weird to me because, like, the important thing to note about dark harvest is that you do get a stack. Not just from killing them, just from getting them low. Like, this is. This is why brand support takes it. Because he's extremely good at just getting them low. Doesn't need. And while he can proper electrocute, it's a little harder than usual. But he can.
Um.
I don't know if he takes dark harvest anymore because of how. How bad it is compared to electrocute. You just take electrocute because as I said, he can proc it.
And the cooldown for electrocute is a lot lower than dark harvest. Dark harvest resets on a kill. But we're not.
The ideal case for dark harvest is you get a kill every time you proc it.
And that's kind of magical Christmas land. So I'm just kind of like, yeah, sure. You're winning the game. Congratulations. You're already winning the game.
[00:27:41] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:27:41] Speaker C: Didn't matter about your rune.
[00:27:43] Speaker B: Pretty much that's where I'm at, is like, the cases where this dark harvest scaling actually gets to be useful. You are winning anyway.
[00:27:51] Speaker C: And that's the other thing.
[00:27:51] Speaker B: The reason you won.
[00:27:53] Speaker C: And that's the other thing. Dark harvest procs once per life. Usually in a laning scenario, electrocute procs multiple times at 20 seconds. Cooldown. That's every wave. Yeah, every wave.
[00:28:08] Speaker B: It's. It's. It's so much better than dark.
[00:28:15] Speaker C: I will be very surprised if it stays like this. I I am, uh, that there's a few changes in this patch that are like, are you sure you wanted to do this on the three week patch?
[00:28:26] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:28:26] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:28:27] Speaker C: Are you sure?
[00:28:30] Speaker B: They specifically say that they wanted electrocute to be the more reliable and early game focused rune. And they wanted dark harvest to be the riskier cousin and to outpace electrocute by the late game. I think they just think that way more procs happen than actually happen in real world games. Outside of, again, like extremely low Elo, where it's just 50 kills a game per team.
[00:28:54] Speaker C: And I mean, even it doesn't need to be kills. So, like, if they fight and nobody dies but you still proc it, that's fine.
[00:29:02] Speaker B: Yeah, but then you have 40 seconds before you can proc it again, right?
[00:29:07] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:29:07] Speaker B: That's what I mean is even if you took, like, the absolute cartoonishly best case scenario where you're procing it on cooldown, that is three procs every two minutes, which means it still would take 15 minutes just to break even with electrocute.
And you're never procing it on cooldown. Like, that is an absurd scenario.
It's fucking stupid.
I've ranted enough about dark harvest. I'm very sad about this. Talk about another ad carry free shooter.
[00:29:47] Speaker A: Well, talk about the former dark harvest user, Miss Fortune.
So her base ad went up by three, but with they say she doesn't really rush Yomu's anymore, so they just buffed move speed on her w.
Yeah, the strut passive. It's now a four second lockout instead of five. After taking damage upgraded, move speed delay is now 3 seconds instead of five. Your max bonus move speed went up by five at all ranks, and the initial bonus went from flat 25 to 30, scaling to 50. So miss Fortune now just go zoom.
[00:30:34] Speaker C: Yeah, like this. These are all great buffs.
[00:30:37] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
[00:30:38] Speaker B: And specifically, I wanted to clarify. The damage lockout is how long after you took damage before you start zooming again? Just passively. You can reactivate it to instantly hit the. The max move speed bonus. Correct?
[00:30:51] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:30:51] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:30:52] Speaker C: That. That damage lockout is the one that doesn't matter.
Like.
[00:30:58] Speaker B: Yeah, it's nice.
[00:31:00] Speaker C: I'm trying to think of a time whenever I actually cared about damage lockout because usually I just hit w and proc it to max anyway. Like, yeah, so.
[00:31:11] Speaker A: I mean, yeah, there's a lot of miss fortune builds where she just doesn't buy boots.
This helps those a lot. It helps the ones like Miss Fortune just go real fast now.
[00:31:25] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:31:25] Speaker A: And move speed always feels good on ad carries, especially immobile ones where, like, she doesn't have a dash in her kit, she just has walk faster, which, like, the better you are at ad carry, the more impactful that stat feels like. It's one of the reasons I still love building phantom dancer. Just because it gives so much more move speed than the other Zeo items.
[00:31:51] Speaker B: Yeah, it's true.
I just think it's funny. Like, why MF of all champions to be the zoomie ADC? Like, I don't understand how that's supposed to fit in the rest of her kit. Like, thematically, it's weird.
[00:32:07] Speaker A: It's weird. Yeah. It's one of those things that's kind of always been there, so I didn't really think about it, but yeah, you're right. It's kind of weird.
[00:32:14] Speaker B: Like, her vibe is supposed to be like the dual wielding lady pirate badass, and then for some reason, she just also zooms everywhere. Like she's fucking running a marathon the entire game. And it's like, in heels. In heels, yes. And it's just like, why did they choose to give her this?
But it's been that way for 14 years, so I don't think it's ever going away.
[00:32:40] Speaker A: Probably not.
Yep.
[00:32:43] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:32:45] Speaker C: I'll talk about I want to be next because I want my last one to talk about is Orianna. It's literally the next thing in the patch notes after misfortune.
[00:32:52] Speaker B: All right. All right.
[00:32:54] Speaker C: And it's quick. It's quick. I picked one that probably isn't actually an earth shaking change that they're probably gonna have to revert or rethink in about.
[00:33:01] Speaker B: It's okay. The Orianna players will be happy about it, right?
[00:33:03] Speaker C: Yeah. Orianna's players are happy about it. Literally the only change for Orianna, her attack damage went from 40 to 44.
That's it.
[00:33:12] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:33:12] Speaker C: Jin's happier fours in the game. Yeah, exactly.
So realistically, the reason why this matters is because one of her early training patterns is putting her shield on herself and then autoing you and La Mao. You can't hit me because it's a shield.
[00:33:29] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:33:29] Speaker C: And her passive stacks with extra damage with her repeated autos on the same target. So this is not insignificant.
It is four damage.
[00:33:39] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:33:40] Speaker C: She gets a lot of damage from her autos early, so this is fine.
[00:33:43] Speaker B: It also specifically should help her with last hitting a lot because early game, when you don't have AP yet, she was doing less damage on auto attacks against minions than other mages were just because she has lower base ad because of her passive.
So this should make her feel more comparable to the rest of the mage cast for just ability to last hit minions with auto attacks.
[00:34:05] Speaker C: Yep. So yeah, Orianna Buff. It's minor but good. Probably will be a good quality life buff. This. Buff is good. I like it. This is correct.
[00:34:13] Speaker B: Yep.
All right, I'm gonna talk about everybody's favorite, least favorite scorpion for a moment, because Skarner has been ops. Fuck.
In the top lane specifically, he's pretty meh as a jungler or support. Please stop playing him. Support.
But from top lane, he has been completely untradable, completely unfightable, and just a hellion to deal with. So they've nerfed the shit out of his queue. They've raised its mana cost from 30 to 50 and reduced the max health damage. This is dealt either when you reactivate the Q to throw the rock, or on your third auto while you're carrying the rock from 15% down to 10% so it costs more and does less damage.
Now, this specifically should not impact jungle Skarner meaningfully because the Q has a cap against monsters anyway. And even at 10% max health damage, you're hitting it on anything that matters.
So, like the buffs, the gromp, the big monster in the Raptor and wolf camp, the big Krug will still take the same amount of damage anyway. So it's very mild in how much it impacts clear speed. And in jungle, you get infinite mana anyway. Cause jungle item, does this knock Skarner out of top lane? God, I hope so. He's so frustrating to deal with.
[00:35:47] Speaker A: I think it probably helps a lot. Like, I think he's still gonna be really good against tanks specifically, but I think this eases up some of the, like, bruiser matchups.
[00:36:02] Speaker B: This should be enough to make the matchups that are supposed to beat him, like Rumble and Mordekaiser actually able to do so.
[00:36:08] Speaker A: Yeah.
Yeah. And I think it makes it. Yeah, it makes it less impossible for some of the bruisers. I still don't think you'll want to play a tank into them, though.
[00:36:19] Speaker C: No, don't do that.
[00:36:24] Speaker B: It's kind of like poppy in that sense where she just kind of beats the shit out of tanks and riven and fade. I mean, those two do it very differently, but. Yes.
All right, free shooter, let's round out the patch.
[00:36:43] Speaker A: Yeah. Shout out to arc ryu, because Xayah is getting buffs.
Yay. So her e cooldown is losing a second at all ranks. So from 13 to nine, it's now twelve to eight. And the base damage is getting just a extra five base damage on our ranks. So Washington, 50 to 90. Now 55 to 95. So small buffs. But I think she's like, she wasn't in such a bad position that she really needed a ton. And e is your first max. It's one of your main damage dealing abilities. So I think it's a pretty good buff.
[00:37:24] Speaker B: Yeah. It's specifically like, she suffered a lot of the change from quick blades to flicker blades because quick blades had ability haste on it. And she actually wants the ability haste, not just the auto refund that the item has.
[00:37:38] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:42] Speaker C: To be clear, that that change of how much damage it does is per feather.
[00:37:48] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Sorry. Thank you.
[00:37:50] Speaker C: There is, there is a damage reduction, like how many feathers you got hit by.
You take less damage from more feathers hitting you. It's not that much of a damage reduction, though. Like, even it takes five feathers to a minute. If you get hit by ten feathers, you get by ten feathers, and then the 11th feather hits you for 50% less damage.
[00:38:11] Speaker B: Yep.
So, yeah, that does add up. You're typically getting hit by, like, three to five feathers. When she's doing this correctly, it has.
[00:38:21] Speaker A: To specify to a minimum of 10% damage. And I'm like, when are you getting hit by a 19 feathers?
[00:38:29] Speaker B: 19 feathers?
[00:38:30] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, is that just like an earth specific limit?
[00:38:34] Speaker B: So earth, but also with flicker blades and enough ability haste and attack speed. Elsewhere on baron or dragon. Baron and dragon could be hit by this many feathers.
They don't want her feathers to be too strong of a Kalista esque one shot on the thing to prevent smites. They're pretty good at it anyway, but this serves as a limiting variable on that.
[00:38:59] Speaker A: Yeah, I guess they last for 6 seconds on the ground, so in theory you could get that many.
[00:39:05] Speaker C: That's so hard to do. Yeah, it's so hard to do because what you'd have to do. So the way Zions work is that every ability you throw gives her three feathers that she can. That she'll be throwing with her autos. Right.
[00:39:17] Speaker B: Plus two from cast and q.
[00:39:18] Speaker C: Plus two from casting q. Um, just wait. Do you get, do you get three feathers by casting her ultimate? Because her ultimate throws five feathers out. But I think you that also gives you three feathers.
[00:39:31] Speaker A: It is after using an ability.
[00:39:34] Speaker C: Okay, so, all right, so you have four abilities. That's twelve feathers. Plus five from the ultimate for 17 feathers. Plus two from the queue for 19 feathers.
[00:39:43] Speaker A: But then minus three because you're e. Well, I guess the first you would.
[00:39:46] Speaker C: Have to start with the very first ability you use is the e. Somehow you hit e through a q and then waited for the cooldown to come back and hit e w q r in quick succession, but not too quick because she can only hold feathers.
[00:40:02] Speaker B: Yep. That's why I think the real scenario is this is like heavy attack speed builds with flicker blades and ability haste.
[00:40:08] Speaker C: Exactly.
[00:40:09] Speaker B: Yeah, like, you're only hitting extremely late game anyway. This is like full build. You've upgraded your zerkers into Zephyr. I kind of stuff.
[00:40:17] Speaker C: In any case, it's gonna be very rare you actually hit 19 feathers.
In any case, this is a good buffer for Zaya. This is per feather. It is gonna be useful.
[00:40:28] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:40:30] Speaker B: Okay, let's give an example of a trinket tip. This is an oldie, but a goodie. We've definitely said this before on the podcast, but it is worth repeating because it is something that is simultaneously really intuitive once you know it, and completely unintuitive if you're unaware.
If you are hiding in a bush and enemy minions begin targeting you instead of continuing on and fighting other minions, the enemy has vision in that bush, period.
Usually this means they have a ward there. There are a few other cases that could grant vision, but award is the most common one.
[00:41:09] Speaker A: My favorite, Teemo.
[00:41:12] Speaker B: Teemo is one. So be mindful. I'm gonna double down on this, though, that there are other things that can be an indication of you're in a warded bush. Because I had a game today where I walked into a bush to set up vision on Baron and I heard a kled ult go off, and I was like, oh, I walked over. Vision let me walk in a weird direction so I don't get hit by the Kled ulta. And sure enough, 2 seconds later, kled came charging in right where I was. That if I had run back the way I came, I would have gotten hit.
So pay attention. Enemy can have vision. If you can't see it, that doesn't mean it's not there.
[00:41:54] Speaker A: Yep. Object permanence. It's an important skill in League of Legends.
[00:41:59] Speaker B: Yes. This is also why it is good to ping every word you see placed when you see it placed. So you can have that little indicator on your screen of, there's a ward still in here.
[00:42:09] Speaker A: Yes, that's very useful.
[00:42:12] Speaker C: I like that. They added the timer to the, to the ward ping. Honestly.
Yeah, yeah, that's really useful.
[00:42:21] Speaker B: It's nice. It's less to remember.
[00:42:25] Speaker A: That's one of my favorite quality of life buffs they've done in years.
[00:42:29] Speaker B: So that's an example of a trinket tip, listeners. If you want to join the show, record a trinket tip of your own, some piece of advice that you think would be good for other listeners to know and send that recording to theforwordspodcastmail.com dot.
We're looking for new hosts.
All right, let's get to some listener questions. And our first set is not really questions, but we're going to discuss them briefly because Codex Ninja sent us some ideas for the Patreon, for Patreon content.
So we are going to go through them on the show because we don't have enough questions because listeners, you didn't write in enough questions. The four wardspodcastmail.com, so we can answer them on the show, please.
All right, so Codex Ninja wrote in, hey, wards, that favicon bloke is very brilliant. Follow all his ideas. That being said, I can see your perspective that a to z champion deep dives might be a bit much to fully commit to. Yeah, it'd take years. As an alternative, would y'all consider doing four for each four warden, 16 total. That way you can remain in y'all's expertise and not over commit to the bit. Anyways, food for thought insert, shut up and take my money meme.
My feeling on champion deep dives is just, we'll do them whenever we have a reason to and we feel like it.
I don't think it really fits the show for it to be a regular piece of the show, but it's fun as a one off every once in a while.
[00:44:00] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:44:02] Speaker B: What do you think?
[00:44:04] Speaker A: I like the idea of, like, where you're saying, like, four for each. Like, four warden or for each. That's a funny title for us. Um, but I like the idea of maybe, like, that could be, like, an end of season thing where we do, like, a deep dive on, like, our main or mains for the season, something like that, as patreon content.
[00:44:30] Speaker B: I don't hate it could also just be an episode if we're really hurting for ideas at the end of season.
[00:44:35] Speaker A: True.
[00:44:37] Speaker B: So, yeah, we'll keep that in the back burner. I like that better of, like, who did we main talk about them.
[00:44:44] Speaker A: But in general, like, one of the reasons champion deep dives kind of tend to not work very well is this game gets patched every two weeks.
What we say might not be relevant in a month.
[00:44:58] Speaker B: Yep. Especially since, like, items change every year. I don't think there's been a year where there isn't a core item change for basically every champion.
[00:45:10] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:45:12] Speaker B: Yeah. All right, so Codex Ninja continues. Here's a small list of ideas I've pondered for any theoretical Patreon content. Some might be stinkers sorry. One is pretty flashcards. One of the things that can be hard about league is its complexity. I really want to have a nice set of flashcards to study when I'm bored in between things. For each champions passive and each of their abilities, it would be nice if critical abilities like Morgana Bind had additional cards about it, like what is Darkbinding's cooldown? While it can be argued that the league always changes, my friends, that is why we have stickers.
I like the idea of just a flashcard of like, a champion that has regular changes and then just a stack of stickers making the card like, three dimensional. Because you've had to patch the flashcards so many times.
That's hilarious to me.
God, I think the big problem with flashcards is just we don't have a resident artist on staff anymore.
[00:46:09] Speaker C: I wonder if you can do electronic flashcards that you can, you could update.
[00:46:14] Speaker A: Probably just like a Google sheet where.
[00:46:18] Speaker B: Each slide is essentially get a programmer listener to write up a quick program that just pulls directly from the wiki so that it updates for us.
So programmers, if you're out there and are interested in that, I wonder, let us know. The four Wards
[email protected] number two is luck or skill. Recently, I killed the super strong yone before his ult cast as a fully stacked jynx. I think it could be fun to have listeners submit their cool plays and see if our trusty judges, our esteemed wards, deem them as just lucky their opponents fed, or if it was actually a super cool outplay. I also feel this could lead to some good educational content to break down the cool team fights or what have you.
Uh, but Codex ninja, what you're failing to realize is that all of our listeners have all of the super cool outplays. You guys are amazing.
[00:47:10] Speaker A: This would be funnier to do for, like, submitted clips from pro play. Like, hey, was this an actual outplay, or did this person just actually get lucky?
[00:47:22] Speaker B: So I should pass this on to Kangas for the rundown? Patreon. Got it.
[00:47:29] Speaker A: Actually, yes. I think that would be a hilarious episode.
[00:47:33] Speaker B: There you go. Codex ninja. Thank you for the idea. We're sending it over to the run. Dan.
Number three is really straightforward VOD review. Man, I would love to have a VOD review with one of the crew.
VOD reviews are a lot of work. It's a lot of time invested.
[00:47:51] Speaker C: That being said, about an hour.
[00:47:52] Speaker A: That being said, I'm down.
I like doing it. I like casting, and it's similar.
[00:47:59] Speaker B: So what I'm hearing is if you're subscribed at the $10 a month tier, message free shooter, and he's not going to commit to specifically. Like, I will do x number a month, but if he's in has time, he'll do a VOD review for you.
[00:48:12] Speaker A: Or just send an email to the patreon or to
[email protected], and Jax will forward it to me.
Yeah, just because I kind of have, I'm in a lot of discord servers that end up getting like random people friend requesting me, so I kind of tend to ignore random messages. So that's probably the best way to actually get in touch with me.
[00:48:38] Speaker B: I guess that's a better reason than mine for when I ignore random messages.
Anyway, number four is I'm a sound designer by trade and I had a wilder idea that might be fun to sound design Codex ninja as a shoutout. Would that be something you'd be interested in kind of promoting at the ten dollar a month slot? I can commit to designing ten names for the shoutout as an exclusive perk for the first ten people who follow my lead.
Um, I mean, yeah, if you want to have us just excitedly yell people's names all excitedly yell people's names into a microphone.
[00:49:14] Speaker C: So this is, this is a, this is a, one of those things that's like very much per podcast. Because there's a podcast I listened to a while back, I think it's defunct now, where one of the benefits of Patreon, of subscribing to their Patreon was not only the shout out, but like the host would make up some kind of joke or pun based on your name that you gave and recite that as part of the shout out.
It was very much in tone with the rest of the podcast, though it's not something that is for every podcast. And you've seen other content that will have dames scrolling past or whatever, and some that will shout it out, some that won't.
It's always a per podcast thing, in my opinion.
[00:50:05] Speaker B: All right, hear me out, though.
Discord includes a feature where you can play a specific sound clip whenever you join a call.
If they subscribe and Codex Ninja makes these shoutouts, we could have people literally have us screaming their name as what plays when they join a discord call.
[00:50:26] Speaker C: That is true. I remember seeing that. What's it called?
[00:50:30] Speaker B: I have no idea. I don't use that feature. I just have experienced other people.
[00:50:34] Speaker C: I have only used it in one specific server because that one specific server makes sense for me to use it.
And I think there's another server where I use the Helldivers mission launch sound. Bop bom bom bom. Because it's a good one.
[00:50:50] Speaker B: It is a good sound. I will agree with that.
[00:50:52] Speaker C: I think it's a soundboard. Yeah, probably.
[00:50:55] Speaker B: I don't know. I've never messed with it. I'm not going to mess with it while we're recording the podcast.
[00:51:00] Speaker C: I'm tempted to mess with it while recording the podcast, but I will.
[00:51:03] Speaker B: Of course you are. All right.
So thank you for the ideas, Codex ninja. We really do appreciate your subscription on the Patreon. Keep sending in more questions. I know you'll actually do it. So thank you.
[00:51:15] Speaker A: Yes. Thank you, Codex Ninja.
[00:51:17] Speaker B: All right, our other question for tonight. The last question of the podcast comes from Tyler, who writes, I'm an old player. I played back in the early seasons and then quit. I've been playing for about a year or two now. Been trying to find a beneficial role, been trying jungle to be more productive and lower elo. But I find myself getting focused on farming and losing my vengeance on goals that would help me with my team.
[00:51:41] Speaker A: That's why I don't play jungle.
[00:51:43] Speaker B: Do I keep trying to jungle or push for a top or mid roll? I tend to use random champions to help with champion balance, such as if we're heavy ad, I'll go fiddlesticks. Or if we need a bruiser, I'll go volley. But I tend to find myself doing good or getting blasted by the other jungle. Any help is appreciated.
[00:52:00] Speaker C: Let me, let me read this again because I'm looking for something.
[00:52:03] Speaker B: While you're reading that, then I am going to point out that jungle tends to be more feast or famine than other roles. It is really hard to have a pop off game on jungle when all of your lanes are losing. It is really hard to have a bad game on jungle when all your lanes are winning.
Just the nature of the role. So it tends to be a little bit more feast or famine. The games in the middle are going to be where one or two of your lanes are winning and one or two of your lanes are losing. And you're the difference maker in making it one lane losing instead of two, basically.
[00:52:41] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:52:42] Speaker B: Or in snowballing your winning lane hard enough to just carry the game.
I do think if you're comfortable playing champions with different damage types, being a flexible damage type on jungle is extremely valuable because, yeah, you're gonna get games where your team is otherwise full ad this is true.
[00:53:03] Speaker C: Um hmm. Fiddlesticks and volibear. I actually like, kind of like both of those choices. Um, both of those get to kind of decide, fight, decide when a fight starts. So that's one of the, that's one of the things that's difficult about jungling is deciding when a fight should start.
Because a lot of times you show up to the start of the fight, that's the signal that the fight starts. That's sort of one of the things that the jungle, by default, does.
The thing about getting focused on farming and losing your vision on goals.
I think that means that you might need to work on your clear speed.
Generally speaking, you should be able to go through your jungle, wipe all the camps and have time to do other stuff. You should have between half a minute and a full minute between jungle camps. Respawning to do other things.
[00:54:11] Speaker B: Yep. And I do want to be clear for generally, for most champions, your first clear, you have 30 seconds before the next camp will spawn. And, yeah, it's subsequent clears where you should have this about a minute available.
[00:54:25] Speaker C: That is correct. And for the first clear, you have 30 seconds. However, you can also kill the scuttle inside those 30 seconds.
[00:54:34] Speaker B: Oh, I'm saying after scuttle, like six camps in scuttle, you have about 30 seconds till your first small camp respawns.
[00:54:40] Speaker C: So. Yes.
[00:54:44] Speaker B: And one scuttle, I should say, if you double scuttled, your camp is respawning around the time you get the same.
[00:54:49] Speaker C: That is correct, yes. By the time you reach the second scuttle, your camp should already be respawning.
So if you were to wipe your entire jungle on the first clear and then immediately press recall, you will generally get back to the first camp right as it's respawning.
[00:55:05] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:55:06] Speaker C: You'll have like 10 seconds just between.
[00:55:08] Speaker B: The recall channel time and the run time. Unless your champion is abnormally fast for some reason.
[00:55:14] Speaker A: Correct, Lillia?
[00:55:15] Speaker C: Which is why I say that you have less than 30 seconds when you clear and 30 seconds if you clear and ignore the scuttle. And less than that if you kill the scuttle. Because, yeah, it's the walking time that takes up those 30 seconds. Really?
Yeah.
[00:55:33] Speaker B: Frequently I will kill scuttle and then just walk straight to where the camp is going to respawn and arrive around when it spawns. Kill that first respawn and the other one in that quadrant. And that's when I'll recall.
Assuming that I'm just, there's no gank opportunities and I have not been harassed by the enemy jungler at all. But I also don't want to go hunting for them.
[00:55:55] Speaker C: Yeah, when it comes to these sorts of things, work on your clear speed and also work on snap decision making. So one of the worst things you can do as a jungler is to wander around not doing anything.
If you finish your clear, kill the scuttle, and then you sit looking for a gank topside for 20 seconds. That's terrible. That's awful and bad.
You should at most take 5 seconds and then if the gank's not happening, you should, you should, you should bail on it.
[00:56:25] Speaker A: Something good to you can do is like in a situation like that, go like in, you know, one of the bushes and just start channeling your recall. And if the gank opportunity presents itself in the 8 seconds of your channel, take it. Otherwise finish your recall.
[00:56:40] Speaker B: Yep, very frequently. That's how I counter gank a lot of the time is I'll just set up a recall location out of vision nearby and then cancel it and go counter gank because the enemy jungler walked over our vision.
[00:56:52] Speaker C: Yep.
Those are the things I can really think of when you're talking about, like getting focused on farming, because you should be. You should be able to wipe your jungle and have time to do other stuff. So one of those two things needs to change. Either you're not wiping the camps fast enough, or you're spending too much time not doing something.
[00:57:11] Speaker B: Yeah, a common mistake I see. Especially in lower Elo where people are losing a lot of clear speed. Champions who have a cc or heavy dueling ability should still be using that for your clear, just to clear faster. Unless you expect the enemy jungler to arrive any second, just burn the cooldown. It'll be back up in 10 seconds anyway. Examples of this using the volibear that you mentioned here in this question. Volibear's Q is an auto reset that does damage. It speeds up your clear. Unless you expect that you are imminently about to fight another player, use that Q on cooldown to auto reset to clear faster.
[00:57:54] Speaker C: Even better with Volibear's Q, use it to get from camp to camp go faster somewhat, yes.
[00:58:01] Speaker B: Rank one it's not a huge speed buff, and the auto reset helps you stack to five for your passive faster.
[00:58:08] Speaker C: It's not a lot, but if you use it between every camp, if every camp it shaves off a second, then doing it every camp saves off 6 seconds off. Your first clear 6 seconds on top of 15 is now 21 seconds to do something instead of 15 yep.
[00:58:22] Speaker B: Other examples would be ramus powerballing between camps, hecarim e charging between camps, that kind of stuff.
[00:58:29] Speaker C: You can tell between camps.
[00:58:31] Speaker A: Could tell. It's late for me because my immediate thought was fiddlesticks ulting between camps.
Don't do that one.
[00:58:39] Speaker B: Don't do that one unless you know there's an enemy player on that camp and you're ulting to kill them and the camp at the same time.
[00:58:45] Speaker A: True efficiency.
[00:58:47] Speaker B: Yes, I have definitely seen that happen, though, where, like the, your raptors are warded. You see the enemy jungler go take raptors and fiddlesticks ults from his red buff right into his own raptor pit and murders the enemy jungler. It's so funny when you see it happen.
[00:59:03] Speaker C: I would say yes. Do not use fiddlestick ult to traverse the man.
Use it to start a fight.
[00:59:12] Speaker A: Or volibear ult. Also not valid for yes.
[00:59:17] Speaker C: Just because you can use it to jump over the wall doesn't mean you should use it to jump over the wall.
[00:59:22] Speaker B: All right, I've got an exception, though. What if you're using it to jump over the wall to help your Lucian top so he can win the game for you?
[00:59:29] Speaker C: Oh, that's always true. You always do that.
[00:59:31] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
[00:59:32] Speaker B: Every time. No hesitation. Ult that wall help your Lucian top? Luciantop will carry the game.
All right, guys, this has been episode 437 of the Forwards podcast. I'm going to plug it again. Send your questions to theforwordspodcastmail.com. and if you want to join the show and become a host, send a recording of you giving a trinket tip to theforwardspodcastmail.com.
we look forward to hearing from you guys.
I've been Jack Soman for crush you and for free shooter. Have a great night.
[01:00:07] Speaker C: Bye.
[01:00:10] Speaker B: Thanks for listening to the Forwards podcast. If you liked what you heard and you want to support the podcast, head on over to patreon.com, the four wards podcast, to give us some support. We appreciate you and, of course, listeners. Please don't forget to write your questions into
[email protected] so we can answer them on the show.
